Go Kart/small engine issue help?

[GamersCrib]

I'm going to try to explain this as best as I can...

I've got a 10Hp Tecumseh Engine Off-road Gokart with Torque Converter ... This thing is fun to mess with and I'm having a slight issue with its starting up and stopping. I just put a new belt on it which drives the rear wheel chain sprocket for the back wheels.

It has no gears just gas and break... which both work just fine. Problem i'm having is when I turn the key (electric starter) it will start up but at the same time the **** thing starts moving as its turning over. If I hold down the break to stop it after its started then it shuts off. So I'm sitting here with this WTF moment having no idea what the hell is causing it.

It looks like this but of course I got mine in camo

http://catalog.carterbro.com/Kart_2910.html

So I would love to hear of a suggestion to fix this.. its gotta be something simple cause it just did it over night pretty much when I was riding it a while back and everything else works so its like something came out of adjustment.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

Check if your driven clutch is fully open. Also make sure you got the right belt, it should not be snug while the engine is off/at idle.

 

[GamersCrib]

Check if your driven clutch is fully open. Also make sure you got the right belt, it should not be snug while the engine is off/at idle.

I'm sure I got the right belt.. and what do you mean by driven clutch is fully open? and how snug should the belt be between the pulley's if its just sitting there.

 

[jr dragster T]

Grab the middle of the belt between the primary and secondary sheives and push it in untill it tightens. There should be about 1" of deflection. I find most of these Comet TAV-2-30's have quite a bit more though.

 

[GamersCrib]

Grab the middle of the belt between the primary and secondary sheives and push it in untill it tightens. There should be about 1" of deflection. I find most of these Comet TAV-2-30's have quite a bit more though.

when you say 1" deflection you mean slack on the belt as if I'm pushing it down towards the loop? I'm sure its just about right if I understand what your saying and thats how it is...so that just leads me back to driven clutch fully open when its a Torque Converter not a clutch...? This sounds like a very simple fix as it is likely a simple problem cause I'd rather hate to take something major apart vs reaching up under it and moving or tighten something down.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

when you say 1" deflection you mean slack on the belt as if I'm pushing it down towards the loop? I'm sure its just about right if I understand what your saying and thats how it is...so that just leads me back to driven clutch fully open when its a Torque Converter not a clutch...? This sounds like a very simple fix as it is likely a simple problem cause I'd rather hate to take something major apart vs reaching up under it and moving or tighten something down.

Torque converters have a primary and secondary clutch, one on the engine (primary) one on jackshaft (secondary). The belt should not be snug at all on the Primary clutch (engine) there should be slack and you should be able to freely pull over the engine without the tires moving.

I'm going to try to explain this as best i can.

Have you ever looked at your TC while the engine is revving ? The primary clutch "closes" and pushes the belt upwards, while the secondary "opens", and lets the belt down, therefor it is always changing gear ratios. Now, you need to check if your Primary clutch is opened up all the way, it may be stuck at the half way position or something like that. If you have never taken your Primary clutch apart, i'd say now is a good time to learn, and im sure it could use a good cleaning and lubing anyways. Take pictures as you go so you know how to put it back together (its not hard at all).

 

[GamersCrib]

Have you ever looked at your TC while the engine is revving ? The primary clutch "closes" and pushes the belt upwards, while the secondary "opens", and lets the belt down, therefor it is always changing gear ratios. Now, you need to check if your Primary clutch is opened up all the way, it may be stuck at the half way position or something like that.

ok let me get this straight this primary clutch part is the part that drives the shaft over to the chain to run down to the axle? It opens and closes from a large red spring and rides open and closed on rubber bushings? When its sitting still the belt is on the outer edge of the inside of the plates, I have no idea if its opening up as i'm revving it up or not. I'll try to spray it down around the outside with some wd40 to see if that helps any.

I found a video of it running like I think your trying to explain so I'll try to look and see if thats how its working.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pctznmHUCNo

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

- The primary clutch is the one that closes
- the secondary opens
- the primary is the one mounted on the engine
- The secondary is on the jackshaft

 

[GamersCrib]

- The primary clutch is the one that closes
- the secondary opens
- the primary is the one mounted on the engine
- The secondary is on the jackshaft

ok follow you..and that video is exactly how mine is working..I took the guard off it just now and watched it as I revved it up with the rear end jacked off the ground..its the only way I can do that without it taking off with me in it

so this brings me back to the original problem with still no solution. I've gone on both those parts and sanded off any rust I found too and lubed everything up good and seems to be working just like in that video one opens the other closes and the belt moves vs versa on both as it should. when its Idle the wheels are still moving yet if I crank down the idle anymore it won't idle it will just shut off.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

ok follow you..and that video is exactly how mine is working..I took the guard off it just now and watched it as I revved it up with the rear end jacked off the ground..its the only way I can do that without it taking off with me in it

so this brings me back to the original problem with still no solution. I've gone on both those parts and sanded off any rust I found too and lubed everything up good and seems to be working just like in that video one opens the other closes and the belt moves vs versa on both as it should. when its Idle the wheels are still moving yet if I crank down the idle anymore it won't idle it will just shut off.

Watch when it shuts off, does the primary clutch open move at all while its shutting down? Also, is there a little side to side slop in the belt? there should be, your belt could be too wide. One other thing to do is to jack it off the ground and try to turn the tires, they should turn fine, and the belt should not try to turn the engine over.

 

[GamersCrib]

Watch when it shuts off, does the primary clutch open move at all while its shutting down? Also, is there a little side to side slop in the belt? there should be, your belt could be too wide. One other thing to do is to jack it off the ground and try to turn the tires, they should turn fine, and the belt should not try to turn the engine over.

the belt is brand new and appears to be working as it should. So you say I should test turning the rear tires off the ground and they shouldn't be making the belt rotate? If they are what should I do... loosen the belt as in slide the engine up a little?

 

[GamersCrib]

the belt is brand new and appears to be working as it should. So you say I should test turning the rear tires off the ground and they shouldn't be making the belt rotate? If they are what should I do... loosen the belt as in slide the engine up a little?

ok so I turned the back tires and they roll both ways without the belt engaging on the primary..it just spins around it freely. Now let me ask this... should the primary be turning when the engine is idle? Cause its turning thus grabbing the belt and turning the secondary which is what is making the wheels turn when its just sitting idle. Cause if its not supposed to be turning when idle (the primary) then thats where the problem is.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

Its supposed to turn, but it should not start to close until you rev it up. It sounds like your idle is either too high or your springs are worn out and its closing a little at idle, causing the clutch to engage, and maybe (maybe) your old belt was very worn out, and the primary closing a little bit didnt affect it, but when you put a new unworn belt in it will grab it.

It would really help if you could get a vid of you starting it, revving it up a little, letting it go back to idle, then shutting it off.

 

[GamersCrib]

Its supposed to turn, but it should not start to close until you rev it up. It sounds like your idle is either too high or your springs are worn out and its closing a little at idle, causing the clutch to engage, and maybe (maybe) your old belt was very worn out, and the primary closing a little bit didnt affect it, but when you put a new unworn belt in it will grab it.

It would really help if you could get a vid of you starting it, revving it up a little, letting it go back to idle, then shutting it off.

well it did it on the old worn belt too...changing the belt just seemed logical at this point to try. So spring worn out..where would this spring be cause everything appears to be going in and out right? And the idle isn't too high cause if I dropped it any lower it wouldn't idle..its at the lowest it can go to sputter and spit to stay on.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

well it did it on the old worn belt too...changing the belt just seemed logical at this point to try. So spring worn out..where would this spring be cause everything appears to be going in and out right? And the idle isn't too high cause if I dropped it any lower it wouldn't idle..its at the lowest it can go to sputter and spit to stay on.

The spring is inside the driven clutch, The way to see if that is the problem is to start it up, then shut it off and see if the clutch opens more as you shut it off, or closes as it starts up.