and in case you wonder.. there's a Torque Converter behind the box 
'sid
'sid
Gearing help for tracked kart
- Thread starter java230
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java230
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Yes..... I'm sold Sid. They say it's a "safari cvt" I couldn't find anything, but it looks much more like a snowmobile one than a comet
comet makes snowmobile cvts
it's an anchor (or 3 swingarm if you prefer) system;
like the comet 102C for example
but allow me to see if I can trace a 'safari cvt'
OKay got it.. indeed that is called Safari I can only trace it on russian sites though...
Вариатор "Сафари" (Variator [CVT] "Safari") or to be even more precise add
Буран (Buran (snowstorm), that's the model name)
here's one site for example:
http://buran-variator.ru/
unfortunately I do not speak or read russian.. so I can't be much of help.. what I know though, that it's rated for up to 40hp (at least as far as I would understand) and is fairly common on 3600rpm industrial engines in russia.
and it's cheap.. motodog wants $260 US for a complete set with belt and mount which is much cheaper than you'd expect for a smal sled CVT
but I think the series 40 clone for 155 is much easier to get (and maintain)
and it'll do the job as well I assume
'sid
it's an anchor (or 3 swingarm if you prefer) system;
like the comet 102C for example
but allow me to see if I can trace a 'safari cvt'
OKay got it.. indeed that is called Safari I can only trace it on russian sites though...
Вариатор "Сафари" (Variator [CVT] "Safari") or to be even more precise add
Буран (Buran (snowstorm), that's the model name)
here's one site for example:
http://buran-variator.ru/
unfortunately I do not speak or read russian.. so I can't be much of help.. what I know though, that it's rated for up to 40hp (at least as far as I would understand) and is fairly common on 3600rpm industrial engines in russia.
and it's cheap.. motodog wants $260 US for a complete set with belt and mount which is much cheaper than you'd expect for a smal sled CVT
but I think the series 40 clone for 155 is much easier to get (and maintain
)and it'll do the job as well I assume
'sid
java230
New member
comet makes snowmobile cvts
it's an anchor (or 3 swingarm if you prefer) system;
like the comet 102C for example
but allow me to see if I can trace a 'safari cvt'
OKay got it.. indeed that is called Safari I can only trace it on russian sites though...
Вариатор "Сафари" (Variator [CVT] "Safari") or to be even more precise add
Буран (Buran (snowstorm), that's the model name)
here's one site for example:
http://buran-variator.ru/
unfortunately I do not speak or read russian.. so I can't be much of help.. what I know though, that it's rated for up to 40hp (at least as far as I would understand) and is fairly common on 3600rpm industrial engines in russia.
and it's cheap.. motodog wants $260 US for a complete set with belt and mount which is much cheaper than you'd expect for a smal sled CVT
but I think the series 40 clone for 155 is much easier to get (and maintain
and it'll do the job as well I assume
'sid
Thanks Sid!
Do you have any experience using a snowmobile CVT on a lower RPM motor? Skidoo specs say clutch engagement is at 4500 RPM +-200. There is adjustment built in the to driven clutch that should allow it to get down to ~4k engagement.
But in theory If i can soften the primary spring it should allow it to engage sooner.
Any input?
and in case you wonder.. there's a Torque Converter behind the box
'sid
That thing is cool! Whats it called? I could use one of those in the woods. How does it steer? Whats the website for those?? Do you ride on the front or back???
java230
New member
My thinking exactly. you ski or stand in a sled behind it. Steering is done by pushing the handle right or left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA8nRdIZe54
Motodog.ru is a Russian forum about them.
java230
New member
OK how about another option. A wet clutch reduction box. Seems I can get one for about $185, then no jackshaft and TC needed. Just a couple sprockets and chain.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/gx39...tooth-gx390-reduction-gearbox/1500158802.html
Did some quick math, reduction box with chain and sprockets is ~265, TC with pillow blocks, jack shaft, sprockets and chain is ~345
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/gx39...tooth-gx390-reduction-gearbox/1500158802.html
Did some quick math, reduction box with chain and sprockets is ~265, TC with pillow blocks, jack shaft, sprockets and chain is ~345
Nope, I'm afraid not..
there are two ways to decrease engagement speeds, heavier weights, and weaker spring for the driver.
I'm not sure what's availabe or would fit though.
So I can't tell where to look.
Sorry.
for the reduction box.. yes that will be a much better option than a std cent. clutch,
BUT keep in mind that you end up with a fixed ratio..
I have no idea how you end up with ~345 for the TC..
you need the TC (155) and a jackshaft (~10)
and two pillow blocks and two locking collars (that can't draw 180 bucks! more like 40)
So 210 maybe 220 for the TC... a chain you'd need anyways so that's not calculated here.
'sid
java230
New member
Maybe in shopping in the wrong places. I had $75 for sprockets and chain from BMI, $40 for a 25" keyed shaft from mcmaster, and two pillow blocks at $12, and $155 for the TC and $40 for a belt, two $5 collars
Hmmmm, back to the TC vs reduction box I guess. I was thinking reduction box would be a bit more heavy duty than the TC. No belts to eat....
Hmmmm, back to the TC vs reduction box I guess. I was thinking reduction box would be a bit more heavy duty than the TC. No belts to eat....
OzFab
Well-known member
The difference is a TC gives you the variation in speed whereas a redux box does not...
firemanjim
Just kartin' around....
Dude, you're definitely shopping in the wrong places.... www.usabearingsandbelts.com has sprockets and chain on the cheap. $40 for a 25" shaft? Heck no.... Too high.... I'll find you a cheaper one... What size? 3/4"?
java230
New member
Thanks guys. This is why this place is awesome.
I may be able to use the shafts out of the snowmobile. I think they may be 1" and not keyed. But gotta tear into it to find out. Got it off the trailer and into the garage tonight. Wife is out of town week after next so I can get some good garage time in then! Just trying to formulate a plan so I can start scrounging for parts.
I may be able to use the shafts out of the snowmobile. I think they may be 1" and not keyed. But gotta tear into it to find out. Got it off the trailer and into the garage tonight. Wife is out of town week after next so I can get some good garage time in then! Just trying to formulate a plan so I can start scrounging for parts.
If I were building one I'd use a torque converter set up and I think I'd also put a lawn mower gear box between the jackshaft and the drive axle. That way you could have 4-5 forward speeds and reverse. A Peerless 700 series gear box would be perfect for that application. Are you planning on using the suspension from the snowmobile? That sled has a slide style suspension and wouldn't work very well for that application. You need a bogie style suspension. I know in the Golf cart world its quite common to retrofit a 13hp Honda or clone engine and I've seen some suppliers selling adaptors to adapt a taper shaft clutch to a straight shaft engine.
java230
New member
Plan was to use the snowmobile skid. Why do you say it'snnot well suited? Too much drag? I agree a bogie system would be less drag, but it's done already.... why do you day gearbox? So you could gear low and then be able to up shift for speed?
I'm not thinking about using the snowmobile clutch, so I wouldn't need a tazer shaft adapter. I think the Jack shaft is splined though.
The slide style suspension has a lot of drag and relies on snow to lubricate the slides. Take a look under that Ski-doo and you'll see what I mean. Bogie style suspension is 2-3 sets of wheels riding on the track and supporting the weight with a lot less friction. Using a gear box would let you have more then one gear ratio. If you were in deep snow or mud you could put it in a lower gear and have more torque. It would also give you reverse. I mention the clutch adaptor so you could mount a snowmobile clutch on your 13hp Honda. Another idea would be to find a hydrostatic transaxle from a garden tractor and chain drive the axle shaft off that. it might be tough to find one short enough to fit.
java230
New member
Yes the skid does have a lot of drag. It will be used mostly in the snow.
Do you have any experience using a snowmobile clutch on a 13hp? I am not sure sinceiit's not supposed to engage till 4500 rpms.
Do you have any experience using a snowmobile clutch on a 13hp? I am not sure sinceiit's not supposed to engage till 4500 rpms.
I just think you will have a lot of drag and it will create problems with the slide suspension. It will also take more horsepower to turn it and forget about running in anything but snow because without snow to lube it the slides will gum up quick.
Your clutch off your Ski-doo most likely won't work on a 13hp. Even if you could adapt it to your 13hp i don't think they make weights and spring to get it calibrated correctly. A comet clutch (I know it costs $$$) or a Polaris ATV clutch will be able to be calibrated correctly for your 13hp. How much did you give for the Ski-doo? I see a lot of parts on that thing you won't be using. If snowmobiles are has popular by you has they are by me you shouldn't have a problem recouping enough money to buy the correct clutches.
java230
New member
I agree its a lot of drag. 99.5% of the time it will be in snow. I do a lot of snow camping and this is a fun thing to bring along basically.
The drag from the skids is what was originally making me think 6:1, need more torque to get it moving.
My thoughts is the clutch would not work also. So im glad you agree. Ill have to look into ATV clutches, but i think the Comet 40 will be far cheaper.
I paid $260 for the snowmobile, I am planing to part it out to recoup as much as I can. I bought it for the track and drivers. If I had bought them separately they would have been ~$150 anyway. And I figure I can use the skid to see how it works. If it doesn't work well this winter, I can tear that apart and do bogies for next year. But I see it as a working suspension right now.
Not having a ton of luck selling parts yet, just getting to fall, so hopefully people start looking for parts as the sleds come out again. Its also a bit old.... we will see.
I still think your wasting your time with the slide rail suspension, but who knows it might work alright in the snow. I think with a bogie setup,light weight aluminum frame, and only what you could get into an otter style sled that a 6.5hp clone engine with a torque converter setup would work. I know you mentioned 20 mph for max speed, but to me that sounds scary standing in an otter sled! I think 10-15 mph would be splenty fast. I think since you have no experience tuning a clutch you should stay with the Comet 40 clutch has it will come in the ball park and you shouldn't have to spend much time calibrating it (and it will bolt right on). A used Polaris atv clutch can be had cheaper then the Comet but would require adapting and calibrating to work. What year is that sled? That isn't that old and its the perfect age where people will need parts. I have best luck selling snowmobile parts after the first snow. Snowmobiling is like a sickness. Once the first snow falls then everyone gets the fever! Then parts sales heat up! For what your into that sled for you should be able to make your money back and some good profit. The best way to do it is to advertise main or big ticket parts (engine, hood, seat, and etc) first then when someone comes to buy they most likely ask if you have other parts for the machine. Don't list the whole sled for parts! Someone will want to buy the whole thing cheap to take what parts they need.
I went to motodog.nu and there seems to be alot of info there but its all in Russian. I wish I knew how to translate it or have my computer translate it.
java230
New member
Maybe so, but im going to try using the skid first.
Sled is a 94, but most of the parts interchange till 99 iirc. I bought it figuring i could break even at least with keeping the parts I wanted. Hopefully thats the case! It has electrical issues, otherwise I would have kept it if I could get it running. Needs a stator or CDI or both... I have a guy coming for the seat and bars tonight. Once I have it broken down a bit more it will be easier to list the parts FS. Im hoping that I can get them gone pretty quick, eats some serious garage space!
Chrome browser will translate the Russian, most of the way anyway...
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