Fuel & Air Cooling Box

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PGBAJ

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New to the forum, I have a Predator 212cc engine that have been wanting to customize for the fun of it. Looked at adding a turbo (been done), looked at adding super charger (been done), wanting something different and unique. Most Drag Racers (cars) use some type of cooling for their fuel and some also cool the air before entering the carburetor. First question is has anyone on forum tried it on a 5 to 6.5 HP horizontal shaft gas engine?

Thought was to build a box that would hold ice, inside box (front of box) would be a small fuel tank and a 3' pipe through box from left to right. Replace existing fuel tank with fabricated box, left side of box install a 3" air filter, on right side install molded rubber hose that on one end 3" ID and on the other end 2 1/4" to attach to inlet filter adapter on carburetor. In bottom of ice box coil some 3/8" copper tubing, connect one end to internal fuel tank and the other to the carburetor. Could do fuel pump but have not had much luck with them on high RPM builds (gravity always works).
 
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As the fuel becomes colder, it gets more dense, the same thing that happens with air. So if with a more denser air, the engines gets better power, it´s expected that with more density, the fuel would burn more efficiently and consequently will generate more power. Been done for years on Diesel Engines. In Drag cars they state for every 10 deg C they cool fuel they get 0.5% in power. This is a singe cylinder engine so I don't know if it is any benefit, that's why I'm asking the forum.
 
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Sinbad001

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Inter coolers are used to cool intake charges that have been heated do to compression (super charger/ turbo charger) Cold air intakes are for engines contained in a closed engine compartment. Your cold air system really won't do much of anything. The slight power increase would probably be lost moving the extra weight.
 
ezcome-ezgo

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Sinbad001 said:
Inter coolers are used to cool intake charges that have been heated do to compression (super charger/ turbo charger) Cold air intakes are for engines contained in a closed engine compartment. Your cold air system really won't do much of anything. The slight power increase would probably be lost moving the extra weight.
Click to expand...

Well said. You'd be better off finding ways to shed weight than messing with the fuel.
 
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SkidooTNT

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In my experience cold gas dosent atomize properly and will give you problems with a carb system. Car car will literally add more gas to compensate for the non atomized gas. As for being denser I have very large doubts that the gas would become anymore dence being a few edges colder. Like I said I've never heard of a cold fuel system. Yes ice boxes on the air intake are common on drag race cars and will alow you to put more fuel in and get more power. My opinion the weight of a cold fuel system would more then be kill any potential gain.
 
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gas weight is 6.073 lbs per gallon and the Predator 212 has a 1 gal fuel tank, if I reduce fuel tank to 1/2 gallon I would save 3.0365 pounds. If the box held 1/2 gallon of water (worse case) that would add 4.1727 pounds, removal of existing fuel tank and addition of ice box / fuel tank combo is a wash (if its aluminum), Air Filter for new Air Filter is a wash, only other thing is the molded hose so all in all we are talking about adding 3 pounds (4.1727-3.0365+ 2 pounds for hose and misc. hardware.
 
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PGBAJ

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How did you calculate the extra .01 hp? If I reduce fuel temp by 10 deg C which I'm not saying I can do and what the drag racers say is true (0.5% power increase) and we all know racers never tell the truth. If (3 ifs now) my engine is producing 15hp after upgrades then I calculate 0.075 HP increase. Or are you assuming the 0.5% is on a 8 cylinder engine? 3 pounds, I will skip breakfast on race day for 0.01 HP advantage on the race track.
 
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Let's not dismiss this out of hand guys. Remember, we are discussing a concept here, not judging a finished product. So...before we judge benefits vs. drawbacks, let's first look at it theoretically and then try to make reality match theory.

So....IMO...this idea has some merit....the problem is that flaw in concept is bringing the ice chest instead of the thermos.

Think about Blue Ice...or those similar refreezeable plastic bag things....they weigh next to nothing. Secondly...many of you may not be fortunate enough to live where temps reach triple digits for weeks on end.

So..there's circumstances where even a slightly cooler air and fuel mix is an advantage.

So...for cooler fuel....why reinvent the wheel? Just put a gas can on ice and fuel up right before the race.

Now..an air box with a tray on top to hold a freezepak....I have some more ideas to improve this further....but I'll turn it over to the brain trust for now......:thumbsup:
 
itsid

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freezepacks and air can have adverse effects.
Cooler air holds less water than warm air;
so the freezepack will collect condensate.

Thing is, you're moving air at reasonably high speeds..
and any droplets can easily get pulled into the intake if you're not carefully preventing that from happening.

And a single droplet of water can swallow a lot of energy
small science experiment:
put a small amount of water into a balloon and blow it up.. then put a lit lighter under the balloon to see how much energy that water is able to absorb​

Anyways, you wouldn't want water droplets in your combustion chamber.

So that air cooler needs to sit lower than the actual intake.
Or you need a catch, or have a paper filter inbetween... or or or...

Also you'll need to do some bench testing to find out how big of a cooling effect you can actually achieve using such setup.
because of the air speed (and thus short period of time the air has to actually cool down) I assume you'll not be able to cool anywhere near 10°C..
but again, that needs some testing.

'sid
 
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PGBAJ

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I understand water in combustion chamber but small droplets is that big of a problem. They use Water Methanol on gas engines even some small single piston engines with great success. The small water droplets should reduce volume in your combustion chamber and then be evaporated when the combustion takes place. I like the freeze pack idea, they are about half the weight of ice if not a little more.
How about just the cooling of the fuel has anyone played with that on the Predator 212, did it do anything. Been looking for a DYNO in my area to do some testing but no luck. Again just a thought / idea I've been playing around with.

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

PARF idea, GAB plan, I am new to this forum thing and only speak English. Please explain!
 
Poboy kartman

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PGBAJ said:
[/COLOR]PARF idea, GAB plan, I am new to this forum thing and only speak English. Please explain!
Click to expand...

Sorry...you can peruse the forum and figure it out...or just hang around awhile and it'll become crystal clear....

I will give you a hint....find 'Advanced 212 Hemi Predator Build' and that's GAB.
 
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