First Kart, Red Talon has some issues...

[Haydes]

Hey guys!

I am fairly new to DIY go karts but I'm very open to learning! I just bought my first kart used, it's an old Red Talon but it still runs pretty well. The engine is a Briggs & Stratton Intek, the previous owner said it's a "5BSXS.2051HF" and claimed it has 7 HP but I don't know how true any of that is. I haven't seen any other labels or embossing other than a barcode sticker on the bottom that is pretty faded.




It starts up without any problems and runs strong! I took it out for a first ride and got it up to about 20MPH! (I'm wanting to bump that up a little bit). It seemed like everything was great! But some issues started showing themselves...

First, when I start it up, the clutch engages immediately and the drive wheel gets going pretty fast. I kind of have to block a wheel and then chase the kart a little bit to sit down in it. Once I'm sat down it's not really an issue.

Then, while I was riding it yesterday the chain came off several times. I initially thought I just needed to tighten up the chain but now I don't actually think that's the issue. One of the times it came off, I noticed that the reason it came off is because the clutch was engaging while I was idling and trying to spin the chain. This was causing the chain to get bunched up in between the clutch and the sprocket and pop off. I also noticed that the clutch has A LOT of play back and forth on its shaft. I don't know if that's normal or not.


I started taking the thing apart to see what I could find and ended causing more issues lol...
I took the drive wheel off and the bearing just fell apart, I'm definitely going to need a new one of those. And the inside of the hub looked pretty beat up but I think I might be able to reuse that with new bearings. I learned that this hub has 2 identical bearings, 1 on each side. The other bearing wasn't in awesome condition but it still spins and is in 1 piece.


Pulling it apart even further, I found the clutch pads were non existent. It was just metal on metal, (could be what's causing it to engage while idling and by extension the chain falling off?) The brake band was also basically just bare metal. I know I'm going to need to replace the brake band. I'm wondering if this clutch is even salvageable. The snap ring keeping it on the shaft was loose and all but broke off.


Now, as far as getting replacement parts, I've been looking on bmikarts.com and have been able to find what I think are the parts I need.
I found the right type and size bearings for the hub as well as a replacement hub and clutch if needed.

I did get a little confused on the right size for the brake band. I kept seeing 4.5" and 6" bands but when I measured my brake band diameter it was 5.5". Should I assume that it was closer to 4.5" and had gotten weaker over time and stretched out to 5.5"? Or is it more likely that it's a 6" band and the prolonged tension pulled it in and made it smaller? Also, if I get a new brake "hub" thing, should that be the same diameter? My initial thought is that it should be a little smaller right? Because the band goes around it? I don't know on that.

Anyway, I tried putting a video in here of the amount of play the clutch has but it wouldn't let me lol. Any thoughts, tips, or advice it more than welcome! I want to get this baby working again, and then I want to make her go faster!

 

[Sparkwizard]

You need a new clutch. There should be a large, flat washer, a lock washer and a bolt holding the clutch on.
Once you have a new clutch, if it still tries to take off, adjust the idle speed down until it stays still.
You know about your wheel bearings already. You might want to put new chain on it, too.

 

[Haydes]

I figured I'd need a new clutch. When I buy the clutch, is it pretty standard that it'll come with the washers and bolt?

I'm not sure how to adjust the idle speed but I'll do some research into that.

I was wondering about the chain and whether it just needs to be greased or should be replaced. It's in decent condition albeit rusty.

 

[Denny]

Not the original engine for the kart but 5 hp.
Clutch is beyond wasted. As advised get a new one and new chain. Make sure you get the correct pitch to match the wheel sprocket. Looks like someone tried to mix and match #35 with #40 parts. It won’t work. BMI should have all you need and yes replace both bearings. Maybe even all the ones on the kart to be safe.

 

[panchothedog]

For your brakes, buy a new band and hub. It won't matter which size, as long as both pieces are listed as the same. That way they will be compatible with each other. The hubs get glazed, especially when the band has no lining left on it and it is steel to steel. Not that much more money for both pieces and then you will have a brand new braking system. They work good when everything is fresh.

 

[Haydes]

Not the original engine for the kart but 5 hp.

Do you know the model number of this engine? I have no clue what the specs are but I want to.

 

[Denny]

No clue. But check the shroud for numbers. It came off a piece of Craftsman lawn equipment though according to the sticker.

 

[Grizzlymi]

Model number and serial number should be stamped on the side of the flywheel cover.

 

[Sparkwizard]

Is there a black and white sticker with a couple of barcodes on the cooling shroud, under the air filter? If there is, the important numbers are on that sticker.

 

[Grizzlymi]

Bearings are cheap, so I would recommend just replacing all of them if you can.

 

[Haydes]

Awesome! I'll take a closer look at it to try and find the numbers.

As for the correct clutch to get, I want to make sure I understand this. I should measure the pitch of the wheel sprocket teeth, than find the right clutch that has the same ANSI #, tooth pitch, and bore size right?

 

[panchothedog]

Awesome! I'll take a closer look at it to try and find the numbers.

As for the correct clutch to get, I want to make sure I understand this. I should measure the pitch of the wheel sprocket teeth, than find the right clutch that has the same ANSI #, tooth pitch, and bore size right?

It's going to be either a #35, or a #42. #35 chains have the rollers 3/8" on center.
#42 ( or 40, or 428 all compatible ) have the rollers spaced 1/2" on center. Bore diameter will not be a factor.

 

[panchothedog]

If the chain fits correctly on the wheel sprocket, simply measure the distance between the roller pins on your old chain. Then you will know if it's a 35 or a 42.

 

[Master Hack]

The rollers are different sizes on #40 chain & #41.
Watch for that if it is a#4x chain.

https://www.usarollerchain.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/ansi-standard-single-strand-size-chart.pdf

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

This is why your chain wasn't staying on. It was a wobbly.
You can see on the outer rim where the chain was hitting.



This looks like some galled metal and the old key stuck on the shaft.
It needs some attention.
It also looks like a tapered shaft. If that's the case it won't work with your new clutch. That's probably what happened here in the first place.

 

[Sparkwizard]

I do not think that is a tapered shaft. Look at the key slot. That tapered piece is the bushing from the clutch, I think.

 

[Master Hack]

Look at the key slot

Woodruff key,

 

[Sparkwizard]

Woodruff key,

Keyway in non tapered shaft. Clutch had a key built into it.

 

[Master Hack]

Keyway in non tapered shaft. Clutch had a key built into it.

Ok,, just throwin out my guess! How much is the grand prize? How many guesses do l get?

 

[Haydes]

Okay, update! New information!

So the chain is 1/2" on center between rollers so it's a #4x. The bore on the clutch shaft is 3/4" so I think this clutch should do the trick. I'm just not sure if it comes with needed spacing washers.

For the brakes, it looks like 4" band will work fine. But I'm now looking for the correct drum. I think this one will work but I'm not sure about the "bolt circle" measurement. From one bolt to the next is 2 1/4" on the old drum so I don't think it's right. Here's a better picture of the drum side of the sprocket.


Also I noticed that a lot of the drums have a keyed center hole. But I don't think I'll need that because it's bolted to the sprocket and will have a bearing pressed into it.

I finally found some stamped letters/numbers on the engine.Hopefuoly someone can find something with this.

120202 0417 E1 041209 FE