Exploding predator flywheels

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pRoFiT

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Déjà vu.

didn't someone start a thread for that very thing and never complete said task!

Hellion i think you need to do it! no one else will.

In fact 2017 challenge. Destroy Predator 212cc flywheel and record RPM at which speed it explodes/cracks/brakes/etc....

The FlyWheel challenge! We want videos and pictures! #FlyWheelChallenge do it! do it now!

---------- Post added at 11:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------

lol crank case broke in half! but flywheel still in tact!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8T9ebG-2Ww

carnage at 5 minutes
 

FreeRunner15

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Well i know for a fact a modded predator w/ stock flywheel can withstand 6200 rpm.

I now have 36pound springs which can extend to 8000+rpm so one day I will find out for you guys, i just have no tach.
 

bob58o

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Someone should rig up a powered gear system to destroy a predator flywheel at all costs. Rig up a pulley system that will spin the flywheel well over what a 212cc can rev and wait for it to go critical--and then note the RPM.

No sense risking a good engine.

Something like this:
You'd need a shaft with the same taper as the the crank.
Or no?
 

Hellion

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You'd need a shaft with the same taper as the the crank.
Or no?

Yes. You'd simulate the crank or even use the end portion of a used crank and support it with bearings.

Or heck, bore out the flywheel so it's non-tapered and use just about anything to replicate the original shaft.
 

Flyinhillbilly

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My guess is that it's casting flaws that cause it since it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. They said on bob's that the ones that have blown up did it before 5k. That leads me to believe they had a pre existing condition.
 

pearl111

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I totally agree with Flyinhillbilly and believe that some parts get past quality control. It does not seem to be a set rpm when things go wrong. I'm sure there is a place when a motor reachers a certain rpm that it will always come apart. Stock motor at a certain RPM and a built motor at a different RPM.
 

Randy H

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My guess is that it's casting flaws that cause it since it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. They said on bob's that the ones that have blown up did it before 5k. That leads me to believe they had a pre existing condition.

That makes sense. Casting flaw, somewhere along the line it might have been improperly installed, heck somebody might have dropped the dang thing.

Maybe people should use dye penetrant to check for external cracks. Especially around the keyway. That's a built in stress riser.

Even kerosene and chalk or baby powder, ghetto NDT.
 

MrC.

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I think as a preventative measure a couple of those big A/C zip ties or a large hose clap would keep this from happening.

Sarcasm obviously,
I agree casting flaw
MrC.
 

Kartorbust

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Well dye penetrant is fairly cheap (cheaper than I thought at least) https://www.grainger.com/mobile/cat...kits/welding-chemicals/welding/ecatalog/N-nad

---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------

We used them as our NDT in college to check our welds for pipe to flat stock. It may look good, but this really shows the flaws. Maybe a good way to check welds on karts and mini bikes.
 

KartFab

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This post isnt aimed at anybody here, so don't take it personally.

We all take risks in life. Our perception of risk is influenced by how much control we think we have over the situation.

Putting on a billet flywheel by your own choice puts you completely in control. When its your decision, you may minimize the perceived benefit because of cost. You also minimize the perceived risk when you choose not to put one on your engine and rev it above governed rpms.

Your own perception of risk does not change the risk. and those of us that have a fully functional pre-frontal cortex, err on the side of caution, especially when the potential loss can affect your health, which is priceless. The cost of a a $100 flywheel pales in comparison to your health. So why take the risk? Is 100$ really worth rolling the dice for? Its up to you, but I already know my own personal answer.

Think about spreading misinformation, what if a bunch of people see you posting that its 'safe' or claiming there's no 'definitive proof' of needing a billet flywheel once you remove the governor, based solely on anecdotal evidence e.g. my buddy runs 6k rpms all day long and IT DIDN'T HAPPEN TO HIM, so therefore it will never happen to anybody-- this is complete bull-crap.

All it takes is one guy listening to your misguided advice about not putting one on, then he revs it to some ungodly rpm with his inexpensive springs he got online as a 'rev kit' and spins or shatters the flywheel and injures himself.

You yourself are not only responsible for your own opinions (which hey, do whatever you want, your free to use one or not), but you are also responsible for all these younger people that think the internet is the source of all knowledge... pffft.... and will literally take an opinion from a forum as the gospel truth.

E.G. Just think of little kid Billy over there, that poor little 13 yr old boy that searches "how to make my go kart faster?" finds all these youtube videos about governor removal, and searches for some performance parts. Next thing you know, his $75 - his entire life savings up to this point - is only gunna buy him that rev kit from omb warehouse.... oh wwait.... just last year omb had valve springs in that rev kit, but NOW THEY DONT.... why do you think that is? Now, instead they have this massive red lettering that says if you remove the governor, put on a billet flywheel. Some of you are gunna say right now,. uhhh duh they say that because they wanna sell you a flywheel. Im going to say... nah.... they are saying that to cover their own butts because of the RISK and LIABILITY they expose themselves to by selling a 'rev kit'....... So billy who is blowing his life savings on his modded engine can only rev so high....

So here you have proof at the onset of this post from bobs4cycle (professionals running engines on dynos, having the flywheels shatter) and you still deny it saying i see no pictures, i see no proof. You can keep those blinders on and stay ignorant, but it wont change the fact that there is a verified risk in running a stock flywheel on an ungoverned engine, and just because they dont spin or shatter in 100% of the cases, doesn't mean it wont happen ever. There is not simple answer here, and erring on the side of caution, especially when it comes to your health is always good. What is $100 compared to your health? especially when those billet flywheels are so stinkin shiny? I mean thats gotta be $100 in shine value alone, right?
 

KartFab

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I suggest you stay in bed.

ima be poppin wheelies on my mini bike equipped with a shiny billet flywheel yaaas!!

Also, heres a video of one that threw the flywheel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X_kJF8t4G0

and, a few other things to think of if you plan on running a stock flywheel:

  • use locktite on your coil, make sure its gapped correctly. Coils can fall into the flywheel and cause failure.
  • crank flexes under crazy rpms, which could cause the flywheel to contact the coil if the gap is too small....
  • If you remove the flywheel to adjust timing, or put in a different 'timing key' use valve lapping compound to make sure the flywheel taper fits perfectly with the crank prior to reattaching the flywheel to the crank.
  • And finally, to avoid spinning the flywheel on the crank (which is probably more common for inexperienced builders) torque the flywheel nut to the manufacturers specs, which is typically around 54-55 ft lb for most engines.
 

Kartorbust

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You'd think though that in the years some of them have been racing professionally that at least one of them would have have pictures or video of it happening. Like OCD said, in his league they are not allowed billet flywheels. I'm not saying it's not impossible or anything like that, but having proof would be nice to back up the claims. Or they are sponsored by Arc or any billet manufacturer to push sales. Possible.

Here's one kind of similar, way back in the 80s when GM and Ford (maybe Dodge) were running dual fuel tanks, I think it was NBC claimed that GM tanks could explode somehow making them unsafe during a crash. They were caught lying to the public for planting explosives in the tanks to make it look like it was from an accident.
 

chancer

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Someone should rig up a powered gear system to destroy a predator flywheel at all costs. Rig up a pulley system that will spin the flywheel well over what a 212cc can rev and wait for it to go critical--and then note the RPM.

No sense risking a good engine.

Something like this:

And I am sure the members at OMB have several perfectly good Stock Flywheels laying around. You would need to test several, To eliminate any out-liars.
 

outcrydrummer

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You'd think though that in the years some of them have been racing professionally that at least one of them would have have pictures or video of it happening. Like OCD said, in his league they are not allowed billet flywheels. I'm not saying it's not impossible or anything like that, but having proof would be nice to back up the claims. Or they are sponsored by Arc or any billet manufacturer to push sales. Possible.

Here's one kind of similar, way back in the 80s when GM and Ford (maybe Dodge) were running dual fuel tanks, I think it was NBC claimed that GM tanks could explode somehow making them unsafe during a crash. They were caught lying to the public for planting explosives in the tanks to make it look like it was from an accident.

While you are 100% correct that some tracks running stock predator classes do not allow the use of a billet flywheel we all still inherently taking a chance on the flywheel.
I don't think that 5k rpm is the magic number or they just can't handle that rpm, because obviously most can, but there is always that chance that you got the Friday @ 4:45 PM Hemi Predator that "assembly guy x" put together before clocking out, who dropped the flywheel and put it back on since no one was looking and the flywheel bin is too far away lol".

I just ordered a parts kit for my predator and I bought the billet flywheel just to be safe. I won't buy it from OMB just out of spite and a little bit out of principle but I still bought one.
 

gman3850

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I do plenty of stupid things so I try to limit somethings. I'm ok with spending 100 to take my mind off the maybe it will happen with the it will never happen now
 

Kartorbust

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Just because it's billet, doesn't mean there isn't any internal metallurgy flaws or machining flaws. It's just not going to be as likely.
 

gman3850

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Just because it's billet, doesn't mean there isn't any internal metallurgy flaws or machining flaws. It's just not going to be as likely.

Ok if this is the route we are going I will say if will with a 99.99% never happen.

I've never seen or head of a forged flywheel exploding. Not on go karts or real vehicles. Now type in cast flywheel explossion and you'll find your nice amount.

I wont start getting into the metallurgy and the grain bounties that make up the different matterials.
 
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