Engine Sales

[Russell ATV]

As a means to generate seed money for my company, I am looking to sell Honda Clone Based Engines and parts, along with a few parts I will be using on my own vehicles. This fullfils two important requirements for my business; one to purchase an engine with enough volume as to not overprice my vehicle solution, and two to generate necessary income for initial production runs.

The Clone engine may not be everyones favorite engine, but they are very economical and solid for a new engine. I am looking to come in below HF and others in pricing. Now I cannot beat the parking lot sales, but I think these extreme sales are all but gone due to Lifan changing their design and the reduction of inventory.

SO, I am looking for feedback on what you might expect in terms of pricing (fair and consistant), brand requirements, and expectations. If you hate the motor, tell me why, if there is a better solution, let me know. I have investigated for months, but am always interested in what others know.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

Buy a pallet and race prep them (20 minutes with an impact gun), sell on ebay for more than a box stock one goes for.

 

[jr dragster T]

Uhh it takes more than 20 minutes with a impact gun to race prep one!

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

Uhh it takes more than 20 minutes with a impact gun to race prep one!

The ARC guy can do one in a half hour, while commenting on everything and taking time to show stuff in detail.

strip exterior
pull side cover
knock out gov
plug gov hole
unbolt oil sensor, clip wire
reassemble setting up throttle

 

[jr dragster T]

Ohh I thought you ment like billet rod and all.

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

No I mean what people run at the track.

 

[Jerryburger]

Hi RussellATV.
I'm a big fan of the HF Clone or "Blue Terror" as I call it. Every one of my projects that was powered by B/S motors (including 5hp) performs much better when swapped with a stock Blue Terror. I'd say my only nag about the motors is the breather attachment going into the valve cover. Not air-tight, and it leaks/sweats oil. If oil is coming out, dirt and filth are getting in. An easy fix is to smear a bit of the smelly silicone stuff around it and let it cure, and I think all you'd have to do is attach printed instructions so that the casual user is aware of this potential engineering flub up.


Too bad clone manufacturers didn't pick the Subaru Robin series or the USMotorPower 820 engine, huh?

 

[jr dragster T]

Well jerry the vavle cover can only blow air. Not suck.

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

Well jerry the vavle cover can only blow air. Not suck.

If the PCV is working.

 

[Jerryburger]

Well jerry the vavle cover can only blow air. Not suck.

Tyler- you're wrong. The crankcase breather tries to maintain a partial vacuum in the crankcase unless overcome by excessive blow-by. (That's what helps the shaft seals maintain their integrity.) So if there's a partial vacuum in the crankcase, it'll draw in outside air/filth through any leaks/openings.
In an interview (Geez I wish I could find and post it again.) an engineer on the Briggs "Kool Bore" development project sited one of their accidental findings: If you look at the old breathers B/S used on their Cast Iron engines, it was a breather, but it just had a port/slot to the outside from the breather case. They found that they could significantly reduce wear from outside dirt entering by adding the little 4" rubber pipe you see on later models' outside ports.(the Kool Bores). This means that there are times where there is a partial vacuum present. (they later connected the breather to the carb-intake for emissions reasons.) I would KILL to find that article again. They had experiments where they were blocking off cooling fins and other stress-tests that were really informative. (Also stuff about how they came up with the chrome-plated bore, etc.)
Sorry to be such a Butt-Insky, but it's my nature.

 

[jr dragster T]

Well buddy if you dont like the clones for ONLY a freakin loose fit on the valve cover then your REALY picky. If your that concered stop going hill billy and using silicone, And buy some 1/2 OD tubing. That will be a tight fit!

 

[Jerryburger]

Well buddy if you dont like the clones for ONLY a freakin loose fit on the valve cover then your REALY picky. If your that concered stop going hill billy and using silicone, And buy some 1/2 OD tubing. That will be a tight fit!

...you can't fault a guy for trying to protect his investment of limited funds in something that's such an easy fix.
Keep dirt out. GOOD. Quick Ugly Cheap Fix that's effective? Even better.
Don't get me wrong- besides SnoMo motors, the Blue Terrors are my favorite motor available for a kart/project. I just noticed after running mine down here in the Nation's Catbox, that my favorite blue motors might be sucking in dirt through an easily fixed leak. Since we all don't have money to throw away (does ANY of us?) I figured it was a legit concern to submit.

 

[jr dragster T]

Ok, But still theres more to worry about than that breather. The stock air filter sucks and will let a load of dirt in.

 

[Russell ATV]

Some good points so far. I have thought about offering a "Kart Ready" engine versus a "race ready". For a small fee, I thought about bi-passing the governer, disconnecting the low oil sensor, opening up the Air Box, and venting the exhaust (I figured out a way to improve exhaust flow with the existing exhaust, a comprimise between noise and flow). This should get about 1-2 additional HP out of the engine. Some would argue to eliminate the Governor components, but if done right, a bi-pass is completely safe.

As for the air filter element, perhaps a dab of oil will help it reduce dirt in. I also noticed the less than air tight seal of the valve to intake hose. Does the Honda have the same issue?

I also like the clone for sales to people using the industrial engine for industrial apps (power sprayer, pump). I am sure the market for these apps is likely a 20X+ difference from vehicle use.

I have noticed that for an extra 1-2 lbs, there is the 208cc 7.5HP engine. Never hurts to have a little extra power (for little extra weight), but it would prevent sales to Box Stock racing. Any thoughts on this.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[Jerryburger]

Ok, But still theres more to worry about than that breather. The stock air filter sucks and will let a load of dirt in.

Valid point if that's what I was talking about. I was speaking of something that has come up on all 3 of my motors that have been used but not modified beyond mounting a throttle. Not a big fan of the air cleaner assembly either, but no evidence of crud getting into the carb-throat (yet.) Like anything, these motors can be improved upon to satisfy a particular purpose; I was pointing out something I noticed in normal use.
Actually nothing classifies as "normal" around here!

I have noticed that for an extra 1-2 lbs, there is the 208cc 7.5HP engine. Never hurts to have a little extra power (for little extra weight), but it would prevent sales to Box Stock racing. Any thoughts on this.

I guess it would be interesting to find out, for a given seller, how much of a product (like the motor you described) gets sold to Kart-Racers (structured rules, etc) and how many get sold to people like us who just use the best motors we can afford?

 

[Jerryburger]

..oops. Hit the post button too many times. Sorry.

 

[jr dragster T]

Well I know I have run my clone with the stock air filter on dirt roads and practicly in a dust storm and I have found sihns of dirt.

 

[Jerryburger]

Well I know I have run my clone with the stock air filter on dirt roads and practicly in a dust storm and I have found sihns of dirt.

Definitely a problem, then! Makes me wonder if the true Hondas also have these problems?!?

 

[jr dragster T]

I'd say they have the same probelem. It's the same element in a honda and in the clone. But even then a little bit of dirt no one would even notice of it was mounted on a tiller because the will go untill they REALY blow.