Electric Start Doesn't Work

[Filipe]

Hi all,

I've got a manco xtk. See it here: http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19424



I just got back from college (contributing factor as to why you haven't really seen much of me) and tried to start my kart. It doesn't want to start. It turns over and over but won't fire up. I have a couple of myths:

1. It's cold (41* F), that's not helping.
2. The battery hasn't always been my best friend.

How do I know if its time to replace the battery/is there anyway I can charge it/not have to buy a new one?

Thanks,

Filipe

 

[devino246]

If it's turning over, why do you suspect that the problem lies in the starting system?

 

[Filipe]

Because it use to run prior going to college. I suppose I should check for spark.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Did you leave gasoline in the carb?

 

[devino246]

i'm really not understanding your logic. Starting system is only responsible for turning the engine over. Don't put the wagon in front of the horse. Is there enough FRESH gas in the tank?

 

[Filipe]

My noobness shows yet again. I pulled the spark plug, dabbed a bit of starter fluid on it, and she eventually started. Not with the electric start though, only with the pull start at first. Let it ran for a bit, shut it down then tried with the key and it worked.

Of course my idiot self forgot that once it started and I let it sit, the driver belt was turning, but the driven wasn't, so the belt was at a standstill, making it start smoking. You remember something every day I suppose.

@Toystory, yes, I did. I last ran it at thanksgiving. I gave it in a run around the block and parked it, with the assumption that dad would drive it once a week or so. Things didn't work out that way, and it just sat.

 

[Filipe]

You know, it may be the spark plug. The engine turns over but doesn't start. If I dab the spark plug with starter fluid, she'll start up for me. If I run it for a bit, turn it off wait a few minutes it'll start up again. If I wait for a few hours, it won't start anymore.

I.e. After being motionless for a day, it wouldn't start again. I used starter fluid, and it started on the first key turn.

I then proceeded to have miles of fun.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

If it runs at all, it's not the spark plug.

Does your engine have a choke, a primer bulb, or both?

 

[OzFab]

If it runs at all, it's not the spark plug.

I wouldn't go that far, it could be an intermittent coil filure but, it sounds more like a fuel problem. If it turns over ok, more than likely, it's not electrical &, if all it takes is a squirt of starter fluid, that pretty much confirms it.

Remind me, what engine do you have?

 

[Filipe]

Choke? Yes for sure.
Primer Bulb? Haven't seen one.


Robins 10hp

 

[Swabbster]

Boost it with a atv,

 

[Filipe]

huh?

 

[Doc Sprocket]

You know, it may be the spark plug.

If it runs at all, it's not the spark plug.

I wouldn't go that far, it could be an intermittent coil filure but, it sounds more like a fuel problem. If it turns over ok, more than likely, it's not electrical &, if all it takes is a squirt of starter fluid, that pretty much confirms it.

Remind me, what engine do you have?

I don't follow. OP suspected a bad plug. Myself, I have never witnessed a plug that "comes and goes" so I said it wasn't likely the plug (alluding to a fuelling issue). Then you sez, "I wouldn't go that far". Clarify? (I am, of course, assuming that the plug is not foulled beyond recognition, and the gap is more than zero, and less than a football field).

That said, it does sound like a fuelling issue to me. Any time I have witnessed an intermittent coil, it was either heat or moisture. Not like this.

I think the carb needs cleaning.

 

[Filipe]

I don't follow. OP suspected a bad plug. Myself, I have never witnessed a plug that "comes and goes" .

I suspected a bad plug because I had similar issues on my dad's SIS V5 Motorcycle this past summer. I think the spark either isn't consistent or isn't strong enough. Does temperature have affect this? It won't start cold, but if I just got off of it after riding for a bit, it'll key start no problem. Does this sound even half possible? Cuz i'm no guru on small engines.


I've got no idea, but wouldn't it fail after idling for a bit if it wasn't getting enough fuel?

 

[Doc Sprocket]

The cold starting problem is what led me to ask about the choke/primer. A cold engine requires a richer A/F mixture to start than a warm engine does. If you had a primer, I would suspect it wasn't working. A choke simply restricts airflow causing more fuel to be drawn in, so- perhaps the main jet has a slight restriction?

The plug- To eliminate it as a possibility, make sure it is clean, and gapped to 0.030" (or spec, if you know it). Generally speaking, a plug either works, or not. A spark that is rather weak is usually a result of an ignition system fault, most notably the coil or plug lead.

Please provide the engine's model number, I'll see if I can find anything.

 

[Filipe]

Can I clean it with a gunk/degreaser? So something similar to wd-40?


I'll give a tap on the plug, maybe post a pic if I can later.

engine manual lists three possible engines.
ex17D
ex 21D
ex27D

i'll have to look harder for the exact on later.

 

[fowler]

a wire brush does a good job with cleaning the plug

its baked of carbon and crap that stops the plug working

most cleaning products wont help much and wd40 wont do a thing

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Best bet is carb cleaner. The first order of business is the main jet. Assuming your carb is laid out like I think it is:

Shut off the fuel valve, and put a container under the carb bowl. Remove the bolt that retains the bowl, and pull the bowl off, catching the fuel in the container. Right up the middle of the carb where that bowl bolted, is the main jet. Get up in there with a screwdriver (usually flat) and unscrew and remove the jet. Above that (or even attached to it) is the emulsion tube. Inspect the holes in the jet and tube, and poke out with a bit of fine wire, like a bag tie with the paper removed. And crud in there can cause issues.

Put it all back together, and try it. If problem persists, you'll have to try a complete cleaning.

Another thing that could potentially cause a weak spark is the magneto air gap. To check this, you'd have to remove the large metal shroud over the flywheel. This is the sheetmetal that the pull-start bolts to. Having located the magento, you need to check the gap between the armature and the magnet on the flywheel with a feeler gauge. The vast majority of our industrial engines run perfectly happily with a gap of 0.010". In the absence of a feeler gauge, try this: Locate a standard business card. Rotate the flywheel until the magnet is under the coil. Insert the card between the coil and 'wheel. Loosen the magneto hold-down bolts, and let the magnet pull it into place. Tighten the bolts again, and rotate the 'wheel to remove the card.

 

[OzFab]

I don't follow. OP suspected a bad plug. Myself, I have never witnessed a plug that "comes and goes" so I said it wasn't likely the plug (alluding to a fuelling issue). Then you sez, "I wouldn't go that far". Clarify? (I am, of course, assuming that the plug is not foulled beyond recognition, and the gap is more than zero, and less than a football field).

That said, it does sound like a fuelling issue to me. Any time I have witnessed an intermittent coil, it was either heat or moisture. Not like this.

I think the carb needs cleaning.

I was merely staring that it could be electrical but, more than likely, it's a fuel issue

Another thing that could potentially cause a weak spark is the magneto air gap.

That's what I meant

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Gotcha!