DIY 2-speed Gearbox.

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r97

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i think i would put larger holes for the dogs to slip into. putting more holes in it will weaken the metal.

true.......... didn't model say not to drill out the holes, because it will cause play?, i still think a syncro is the best solution, i have an idea on how one could work reletivly simply, but i cant think of how to explain it.
 

mike75925

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model did say not to 12mm. if it is too tight, you will have trouble engaging. if he did go 12mm, i'd recommend welding washers of the same i.d. to bolster the holes. i haven't studied trannies as much so i really couldn't say what is and isn't synchro. but i have seen a few tranny components. some of the older guys talk of 'rock crusher' trannies among others. the one tranny was so tight that they would grind every other tooth off the gears. this allowed easier shifting. as long as your dogs are strong enough, you don't need many. if you go with either 3 or 4 dogs, (say 3 or 4 bolts sticking out as dogs) make double the holes. this will allow a quicker lockup for faster shifts. by making the holes slightly larger (elongated) than the dogs, it will allow less grinding of the gears.
 

Wim

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The bolts/dog teeth are slightly chamfered (2mm). And the holes are about as big as I'd go with this revision, too big and like modelengineer says there'll be too much play.

There are 8 teeth per plate in this revision and that is actually overkill with my 6.5hp powerplant, they aren't showing any signs of bending or wear. I could probably get away with 4 teeth and it'd still be strong enough for what I'm doing. In fact it would be quite easy to remove 4 teeth and run 4-teeth to 8 holes...

I think I might play with increasing chamfer on the teeth and adding a slight 1-2mm countersink to the holes.

But to be honest, it's not that big a deal and if I couldn't get it working any better, I'd still be very happy with the results

@mike75925, I did originally plan to mount the thing above the back wheel and put the whole thing in a sheet metal box with a bath of oil, but then I discovered it would -just- fit between the engine and seat. The upshot of this is that surprisingly little sand/grit has gotten into the mechanism after hours of use. I might still build a box or dust shield for piece of mind though.
 
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mike75925

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i get you, i'm the same way. if i construct something and it works better than i thought, i leave it in that configuration and run the hell out of it.

model, what are you calling too much play?
 

Wim

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Update: Got hold of a GN250 engine today for $200. nice!

So the 6.5hp clone and my 2-speed-box are going in something else (maybe a tough little bike?)

I'm thinking some things will need beefing up in the transition from 6.5hp to 22hp, new live axle for starters.

Obviously, I dont want to do 150kmh+ in that cart so I'll build a reduction jack shaft. The 250 has a 5 speed gearbox but I'll probably only ever need the lower 3.

I'll keep you guys posted on the conversion once I start.
 

brendonv

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Sealing the whole unit and filling it with diff oil would be better and minimise wear. I think running 4 bolts on the dog instead of 8 would be better and also countersink the holes would make it slip in easier. I wouldnt taper the actual bolts as it would weaken the tips.
 

redsox985

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That would be a ton of oil. Maybe half fill if and build in a few splashers. Or some very viscous oil but filled to the top would add a lot of weight.
 

modelengineer

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Yeah, you would only need enough oil so that the chains would dip into it, in fact driving around it would probably splash all over the place anyway. I'd think very little oil would be needed.
 

GreyhoundOfYerfDogs

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I LOVE your idea! I had thought of this, but couldn't quite imagine a home-buildable version, and here it is!

I seem to remember that Comet once made a mini-bike transmission with two chains.

Regarding the technical details. For better meshing, I agree go with 4 studs 8 holes. If you have 8mm studs try 9mm or 10mm lightly chamfered holes. The play will only "come into play" at the moment the kart transitions from drive to coast and back and won't be noticible from the driver's seat. I think the improved engagement will outweigh the play.

The chamfer is important. The angle should be the same on the studs and holes, with the tips of the studs rounded. Do not make too much chamfer as this can make for more difficult shifts when drive and driven speeds aren't well matched. This is analagous to the chamfer of the "drive dogs" in the synchromesh illustration, and it is this chamfer that holds the gearshift lever from moving forward into gear when you try to shift your car without the clutch.

Synchromesh might be easier than you think. Wave washers alone will heat up from friction and lose their tension. How about a wave washer pushing a disk keyed to the shaft, with a brass face or washer to contact the driven unit that the shift is approaching. Choosing the thickness and tension of the wave washer is important too. Too much tension or too soon friction application, and the clutch might be stopped and held where the studs aren't aligned with holes at all. The best solution for this is to have so many holes that their chamfered edges overlap so that only chamfer-to-chamfer contact is possible at engagement; again see the synchromesh illustration. Since it is better not to have too many holes, rounded stud ends will help the studs skate along to the next set of holes. One stud slightly longer than the rest will reduce friction here, but otoh concentrate engagement forces on that one stud.

A wet bath system is uncalled for with chains. If the gears and sliding member are riding on sealed bearings that is great, some graphite chain lube spray on the sliding member shaft when you're spraying the chains, and some sparing grease where the shifter contacts spinning members, is all the lube you'll need.

One thing that will help engagement would be to replace or recalibrate the centrifugal clutch so it engages and disengages at higher RPMs. There is a sweet spot between helping shifting and affecting overall kart performance.

Hope it helps, and thanks for sharing your interesting build! :thumbsup:
 

Wim

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I've run this thing for about 20hours and it's still going strong!

I've put the 250cc m/cycle engine conversion on hold, it seems a pity to rip all this out just as I'm having a lot of fun revising and modifying to get it working really well.

I'll be reducing the bolts on the dog clutch from 8 to 4 each side to improve meshing as per advice.

The only slight annoyance is the tendency for my sprockets to work themselves a bit loose on the shafts. I think this is because the guy that bored them out went fractionally over the required 3/4". I'll try to improve that by using 8mm grub screws instead of the 6mm ones in there at the mo'. And maybe shimming the bore with some brass tube?

I hope this build inspires some of you guys to try something similar/better.
 
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