crazy idea for a go-kart

[squat251]

ok, first off, this is still in the idea phase. here in michigan we have a few sled motors just laying around (acctually they are in the sleds still, but thats remedied easily) anyhoo theres a particular motor that i plan on using in my whacked out idea, a 440 liquid, it propelled the pantera it was sitting in at over 90mph.

the idea was i have 2 motorcycles with the engines all messed up, so what i want to do because i dont feel like fabbing the suspension from scratch is cut the front ends off of both of them, and using a crossbar and the stock mounting areas (just imagine where the front of the bike is mounted to the steering forks) so that i can still steer it, and yet i will have the suspension.

now, there is the front end, but i surely am not finished, see, the rear ends of the bikes are shaft driven, so the idea is to run a shaft with 2 sprockets on it into what will probably end up as a plate of steel from which 2 chains will connect to the drive shafts of the bikes rear ends (i plan on turning the sno-sleds engine and gear assembly sideways so this is all possible)

the steering will be accomplished much like old school trikes plates mounted on the top of the front forks, with 2 shafts coming off each end, connecting to a center plate that will have 2 shafts running to a handlebar, the brakes will be run onto these, one side replacing the clutch handle from the motorcycle. front brakes done, and the rear brakes will be run into a pedal. tell me what you all think, i would love some ideas, or comments, or even no way, thats stupid, this is how to do it.

just remember, i like simple, and even though parts of this seem a bit complicated...they prolly are. i would like to use both rear ends, but any other simpler way of doing this would be appreciated.

 

[PyroKart]

sounds like a good idea but i got kind of lost some where in youre description. i think i understand the front so i drew a digram (you should draw your own covering the whole kart) tell me if you understand it and if that is what you were going for.

 

[mike75925]

i got lost to, normally i have good imagination and started seeing a turn of the century buggy/car. then went blank.

 

[squat251]

ok, its a bit complicated so i will run you through it.

#1. this shows the stock top view of the forks from the bikes, and the new plate (the squiggles are supposed to be weld) with the 2 steering linkages attached.


#2. this is a bit of complication wrapped in enigma, but try and keep up, this shows the plate where the steering linkages from the forks match up with the steering linkages from the new handlebars and even shows how it will steer (hopefully) I'm thinking that i will need to adjust the plates to make it easier to steer so the 2 plates attached to the forks will have many holes to move the linkages on it for steering.


#3. this is a sketch of the drive assembly motor to gearbox via the drive belt, gearbox to what I'm just going to call the jackshaft (it runs through the plates, and so do the drive shafts for the bikes, for stability) with chains and sprockets connecting the 2.


and sorry, you were totally correct, i should have drawn pictures of this earlier.

 

[PyroKart]

sounds like a good plan i still don't quite understand the drive asembelley, but maybe that is just because i have not worked with or really even seen sled engines up close. however i thought motorcylces were a straight forward chain drive (that dosen't make any since check pic 1 to see what i mean). however i am pretty sure that your idea for the steering is the same as mine if Handlebars=steering column and the funky enigma plate is just a modified version of the norm(again see pic). i think you just have added another pitmann arm which is fine (i think you have to) well see if this helps.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

I really dont get it, but the sled engine sounds good. Do you have one thats fan cooled though? liquid might be a pain.

 

[88s10Durango]

You`ve lost me to on the steering , suspension thingy , I think if you use the liquid sled engine you better mount the rad and fan to cool it in a good location to get lots of air-flow , mayby enen make a set of wind deflectors to funnel air into the rad , otherwise your gonna cook the engine , anyways heres a shaft drive engine go kart setup , might help you out a bit ,, Bill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2-z5Jr4nek

 

[squat251]

sounds like a good plan i still don't quite understand the drive asembelley, but maybe that is just because i have not worked with or really even seen sled engines up close. however i thought motorcylces were a straight forward chain drive (that dosen't make any since check pic 1 to see what i mean). however i am pretty sure that your idea for the steering is the same as mine if Handlebars=steering column and the funky enigma plate is just a modified version of the norm(again see pic). i think you just have added another pitmann arm which is fine (i think you have to) well see if this helps.

no no, think a giant torque converter, the only chain is off the drive shaft coming out of the gear box of the secondary pulley. oh, and these motorcycles are shaft driven as opposed to chain or belt drive. there is a mini drive shaft that connects the transmission to a special wheel hub in the back that acts like half a differential. infact, here i will take some photos of the drive setup of both the sleds and the motorcycles today, ill put up a seperate post later that explains that a bit better, and i will diagram the mount points and what not.

 

[squat251]

ok, the first is the drive set up, clutch and secondary pulleys. the second is the drive shaft for the motorcycle (its enclosed, but i believe it can be removed out of there.) notice with the sled drive train that the main pulley attached to the engine is relaxed until the engine revs just like a clutch (which is why it is one...) i have some pics of the gear box from the liquid cooled sled too, but you wont see much other than the outer case.

 

[motor_head]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2-z5Jr4nek

gotta love dave

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

ok, the first is the drive set up, clutch and secondary pulleys. the second is the drive shaft for the motorcycle (its enclosed, but i believe it can be removed out of there.) notice with the sled drive train that the main pulley attached to the engine is relaxed until the engine revs just like a clutch (which is why it is one...) i have some pics of the gear box from the liquid cooled sled too, but you wont see much other than the outer case.

Looks like a nice sled engine, electric start and all. What are you planning on for radiators? sled radiators aren't all that great for warm weather, they rely on snow splashing up to cool them for the most part. Also, your not planning on running the driven directly onto the drive shaft of the motorcycle are you? your going to need some kind of gear reduction before it. You could use the sled's chain case, but again those dont offer a whole lot of gear reduction.

 

[squat251]

that engine is an air cooled 340 that was handy when i was taking the pictures lol, but thanks for the complement. The radiator is rather small on the real engine, and the snow splashing that occurs is under the seat in the track tunnel, so the hosing there would not be useful, this is true, but I've found that I could use a larger yet still small in terms of normal radiators from a small car. there are several in the junk yard, so i just need to find them. however I've decided not to use that engine due to it having caught fire yesterday. but there are many engines availible. as for gearing down, why on earth would i want to do that? I'm looking for speed, and if these engines can power a heavy sled with a heavy rider very easily i should have no problem running it on a relatively light frame. atleast i dont think i will...


(it was coded well, but Ive decided to use an air cooled motor because its going to be much less hassle)

 

[PyroKart]

i think he is saying (but i am not reallly sure nor am i an expert.) that you should gear it down not for torque but so you don't damage the axel or go to fast because the actual rpm of the wheel is too high (does that make sense?)
btw how did the engine catch on fire.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

that engine is an air cooled 340 that was handy when i was taking the pictures lol, but thanks for the complement. The radiator is rather small on the real engine, and the snow splashing that occurs is under the seat in the track tunnel, so the hosing there would not be useful, this is true, but I've found that I could use a larger yet still small in terms of normal radiators from a small car. there are several in the junk yard, so i just need to find them. however I've decided not to use that engine due to it having caught fire yesterday. but there are many engines availible. as for gearing down, why on earth would i want to do that? I'm looking for speed, and if these engines can power a heavy sled with a heavy rider very easily i should have no problem running it on a relatively light frame. atleast i dont think i will...


(it was coded well, but Ive decided to use an air cooled motor because its going to be much less hassle)

1:1 ratio with a sled engine, which will spin 8k easily, is not a good idea. The top speed, with the bike tires (if thats what your using, not quite sure what your plans are) will be over 400mph. The sled engine has power yes, but not that much power. The ratio i would aim for is around 5:1 or 6:1 which will still give you WAY more speed than you would want (depending on tire size, actual engine RPM, and friction etc. about 80-90mph). Trust me, on a smallish go kart, you will **** yourself going 100mph.

As for the engine, by air cooled, do you mean free (air block has fins, no fan or anything), or do you mean fan cooled (belt from flywheel site to fan, which blows air through ducts over the block). If its free air, be careful of overheating.

 

[squat251]

hmm, that makes sence. and its free air. we have an old sled that i rigged wheels on the front instead of skis an that never gets too hot, so im not too worried especially since the engine will be more open than a sled

 

[PyroKart]

kaptain said what i was trying to say.

 

[mike75925]

as stated, over simplified, the last pic is a stock turbo from one of my dad's old bikes that i was going to try to use on my kart

 

[squat251]

hmm, those might work, not sure about the steering tho. and where would i get the gears on the shafts going to the drive wheels? even though its a bit more complicated i think it will be easier to use just the chain set up. plus, that will give me a chance to gear it down a bit. the whole reason i want the chain case from the sled is for the shaft coming out of it. plus it seems like i shouldn't have any problems with the whole 400mph deal because the chain case kept the snowmobile from going too fast, shouldn't have any problems keeping the kart in check, but further experiments will be needed.

 

[Kaptain Krunch]

hmm, those might work, not sure about the steering tho. and where would i get the gears on the shafts going to the drive wheels? even though its a bit more complicated i think it will be easier to use just the chain set up. plus, that will give me a chance to gear it down a bit. the whole reason i want the chain case from the sled is for the shaft coming out of it. plus it seems like i shouldn't have any problems with the whole 400mph deal because the chain case kept the snowmobile from going too fast, shouldn't have any problems keeping the kart in check, but further experiments will be needed.

What kind of gear reduction does your chain case have? I know some of mine have had pretty low gear reductions (like 2:1). It really depends on the sled, if yours is an older one then im sure it would be more like 3:1 or 4:1.

 

[squat251]

yeah, its an old sled, they all are, it would kill me to cut up a new one lol