Comet Clutches

[Stonecutter]

We're building a mini-trike and plan on using a Blue Max 13hp engine, so I've selected the Comet 40 series clutch. Does anyone have a link to the spec/installation sheet? I found one here for the Tav2 Torque-a-verter.....
http://www.hoffcocomet.com/comet/pdf/162608A-tav2-30-new.pdf

I need a similar installation sheet for the 40 series so we can get a head start on the fabrication of drive components.

Also, does the 40 series have an overdrive ratio like the Tav2? Or can the Tav2 be modified to handle an 11-13 hp engine? We'll be doing a straight-drag race competition on a dirt track and don't want to have trouble with clutch slippage.
Thanks!

 

[thatcobaltguy]

Im wondering this too.

 

[STreetKArt]

I DONT NO IF THIS WILL HELP.
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]40 and 44 Series General Information[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif] The Comet 44 Magnum Series and the 40 Series are designed to withstand the extreme rigors of rough applications including recreational vehicles such as ATV`s, utility vehicles, golf carts, and the E.T.V (Economy Transportation Vehicle). Materials handling and other commercial uses: oil well pumps, tractors, tillers, mowers, construction equipment, plus industrial equipment, in short, wherever there is a need for a torque sensitive drive system device that is infinitely variable from its low to high range.

How does a Comet torque converter work? The drive clutch is activated by centrifugal force from the engine crankshaft. The moveable sheave of the clutch is forced in as the RPM of the engine is increased. This contacts the drive belt. The drive belt will then be forced to a larger diamter within the clutch sheaves, thus pulling it to a smaller diameter within the driven unit sheaves. The moveable sheave of the driven unit is forced out, allowing the belt to seek its smaller, high speed ratio diameter. As this happens, the speed from the engine transferred to the final drive is increased. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]This webpage contains information on the 44 drive clutch and the 40 and 44 driven units, either of which may be used in combination with the 44 drive clutch.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Speed Reduction Ratios

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]44 MAG w/40[/FONT] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]44 MAG w/44[/FONT] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]HIGH - LOW[/FONT] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]HIGH - LOW[/FONT] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]1:1 - 2.43:1[/FONT] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]1.24:1 - 2.83:1[/FONT] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]OVERALL
2.43[/FONT] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]OVERALL
2.29[/FONT] [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT] [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]40 Series Driven Pulleys have a 7-1/2" outer diameter,
44 Series Driven Pulleys have an 8-1/2" outer diameter[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif] [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]

IMPORTANT! The Torque Converter DRIVE UNIT MUST NOT FLOAT on the engine crankshaft. It must be bolted tight against the engine crankshaft shoulder. Recommended Torque for bolt - 24 ft. lbs. to 30 ft. lbs. Max.​

RECOMMENDED HP - MAX 18 H.P. 4 CYCLE​

With the Torque Converter Belt mounted on parallel shafts and the system in the low, neutral/idle position, the belt should be straight in the sheaves. The belt when straight in the sheaves should also be square to the engine crankshaft and jackshaft.​

The center line of crankshaft and the jackshaft must be parallel at all times.​

[/FONT] [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Adjusting The Spring Tension Of The Driven[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]

By increasing the spring tension of the torque sensing system ... the power ratio of the system (Driver and Driven) can be held longer at higher engine r.p.m.'s before it's overcome by the clutch driver.
To shorten the time required for the driven member to attain it's speed ratio, DECREASE the amount of spring tension of the torque sensing cams. This will allow the r.p.m. of the drive clutch to overcome the power ratio of the driven unit at a faster rate in a lower r.p.m. range.​

[/FONT] [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Torque Converter Maintenance[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Inspect the torque converter on a regular basis for dirt, frayed belts and any other potential problem obvious from a visual inspection. Always service units before each season. Maximum service interval recommended is each 50 hours of operation.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Drive and driven pulleys should be parallel. Friction faces must be smooth and free of dirt, corrosion, oil or grease. Belt must be dry, straight, and free of cracks, breaks and uneven wear. Operating the vehicle in a dusty environment will require more frequent servicing.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Indicators of a torque converter system requiring cleaning and lubrication are erratic or jerky engagement upon acceleration and a tendency to apparently "lock" into a particular speed (a second cause of jerky engagement is an excessively loose drive chain). If either one of these conditions exist, service the unit immediately. Both driver and driven pulleys should be disassembled and cleaned.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]​

 

[STreetKArt]

http://www.gopowersports.com/Comet/40series.pdf
this could help too

 

[Stonecutter]

Thanks! I printed out the sheet from the url and bookmarked it for future reference.

Going back to the Tav2.... Has anyone tried to modify one for use with more hp? I wonder if stiffer springs, heavier weights, etc, can be used to make it grip better with a stronger than 8hp engine? Is it even possible? I haven't seen one of these in person so I wondered if anyone has tried modding them for more hp.

Has anyone used one with a larger than 10hp engine? If so, how'd it hold up & perform?

The only reason I'm asking about the Tav2 is because it has the mounting plate and will save me the time & expense of adding a jackshaft & the associated parts for the 40 series. Comet says the Tav2 is only rated up to 8hp and we're going with either a 13 or 11hp engine. Since this is going on a mini-trike I'd prefer not to have to account for the extra space and fabrication of adding a jackshaft.
Thanks.

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

I believe the TAV only comes in 3/4" bore most 8hp and up engines are 1". No spring or weight modification would be needed, maybe a lighter driven spring. The power rating has to do with the belt and its surface area. For on road purposes you could probably get away with a TAV and a big motor, off road you will have wished you had a bigger better transmission.

 

[jr dragster T]

Im using a Tav2 on a moded clone and I will let you know how it handles.

 

[Stumbo]

There are a lot of things to consider when they give the HP rating...

A Light weight kart, with a High RPM, low torque engine that puts out 8hp will put a lot less stress on the TC than a high torque low RPM motor 8hp motor on a heavy vehicle.

Its a lot like how a 600hp nitrous engine will kill a tranny that could handle a 800hp turbo engine.

I will be running a TAV2 on a modded GX200 that should put out around 11hp, however its for a yard kart that my 100lbs girlfriend will be driving.

Also keep in mind that you probably wont be keeping that gx340/390(assuming) engine stock, once you do the header, a filter, maybe a bit of timing and a rejet, you might be close to 15hp, almost double the rated power of your TAV2.

I just won a new 44 series TC on ebay, brand new, with 2 belts, for 175 bucks, so keep your eyes pealed!

 

[Stonecutter]

I believe the TAV only comes in 3/4" bore most 8hp and up engines are 1". No spring or weight modification would be needed, maybe a lighter driven spring. The power rating has to do with the belt and its surface area. For on road purposes you could probably get away with a TAV and a big motor, off road you will have wished you had a bigger better transmission.

Thanks. It'll be mostly on-road use except for the mini-bike challenge which will be a drag down a 300-400ft dirt strip. Bumpy, but no hills. And there's a trophy in it for us if we win.

I've seen Tav2 models advertised with a 1" & 3/4" bore. I've used B&S & Tecumseh engines and this will be our first time using a Blue Max. The specs show them as having enough torque for what we want to achieve. Hopefully it'll perform as advertised. The Blue Max is made by Lifan and from everything I've read about them, they're basically Honda knock-offs from China.
The 13hp model goes for $299 on ebay. $289 for the 11hp model.

 

[killawatt]

I put the tav2 on my yerf dog with a honda clone they do really well on road and off road you just have to make sure that you keep the belt as dry as possible even on road driving through a puddle can cause the belt to start slipping but its not that big of a deal but i do highly recommend them it added so much power to my cart low and high end

 

[Stonecutter]

Argh, now there's a new twist that just came up....
After contacting Comet directly with some questions about the 40 series I just got a reply this morning from someone in their tech department. He said the 40 series does not have an overdrive ratio but the 500 series has a 19% overdrive and recommends we go with that. What??? 19% overdrive? That's almost twice of what the Tav2 claims.

Since the purpose for the mini-trike is for a competition between chapters of our motorcycle association, attaining the highest speed at the quickest rate is what our team is shooting for. Parts are still coming in so the actual build will most likely start this weekend.
The clutch and engine being the single most expensive parts were going to be ordered last (within the next month), so with a 19% overdrive it looks like we might be going with the series 500 instead of the series 40 clutch.

I also looked at the spec sheet they sent me and apparently there are a lot more springs & weights you can buy for the 500 in order to tune it better.

So now it's off to ebay and the parts suppliers to see what the cost comparison is between the 40 and 500 series clutches. If it fits in with the budget I guess we'll get the 500 series.

P.S.....
Once the build starts I'll do my best to take photos as things start coming together and get them uploaded here.

 

[Stumbo]

The 500 series has a very steep gear spread, from 3.34 to .81, and might even be overkill for your setup, the really low end might just spin your tires. Don't spend too much time looking at OD, what you will want to do is tune your sprocket size so that your trike is maxing RPMs as close to the finish line as possible, but im sure you already knew this.

 

[Stonecutter]

Agreed.
Race Day is May 16th and from everything I could find today the 500 Series isn't going to fit in our budget with the short amount of build time left. The 40 Series is pushing it as it is.

Anyhoo, the live axle hubs came in today. If the rims & tires come in by the weekend, then the measuring, cutting & welding for the frame will begin.

 

[400exponch]

hi, im looking at building a go kart with a 16 hp briggs and a 40 series clutch driver & driven that i read in these forums. some smaller tav 2 clutches come with the plate to mount the clutches. the 40 series that was mentioned in one forum said buy them seperately but then i have to build my own jack shaft system for the driven? thanks