2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
^^ On 'sid's project, please start an new thread 'sid. I want to keep this thread to the Dune Cat only.
Bringing back the 1972-74 Muskin Dune Cat ... suspension ideas welcome!
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2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
Hi Travis,
I have a stretched body intact now that can be used for the plug for making the mold. In order to move forward, I would need at least 6 bodies to be sold at $799 in big flake metallic colors. There is interest in them, but I have yet to get someone to commit on the them. Until I get these standard length Dune Cat bodies rolling out the door, I cannot invest in the stretched version.
Is there 6 people out there that can commit to the purchase?? Call or PM me.
BTW, the weld table is made by WELDSALE in PA. I bought it new about 10 years ago. It is 13ft long x 5 ft wide, and weighs about 10 tons.!!
IronSpadeCycles
Racer of all kinds
Yeah sorry for the cross comments. Do you have a timeline or pictures of your stretched plug? I might could do 2 bodies after December this year. I have a big project coming up with a rather large profit margin, giving me a bit more side project money. I'd like to build two of the buggies for my GF and I for our families new ranch.
Anyway, will talk more soon. Later Travis
Anyway, will talk more soon. Later Travis
2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
Hi Travis,
Attached is an image of the stretched Dune Cat. A long time ago, someone in California stretched an original body, then made a new mold from it. They did a good job. I would improve this actual body, and make a new mold from it. It is approximately 10inches longer, and has a raised seat bottom about 3inches.
Attached is an image of the stretched Dune Cat. A long time ago, someone in California stretched an original body, then made a new mold from it. They did a good job. I would improve this actual body, and make a new mold from it. It is approximately 10inches longer, and has a raised seat bottom about 3inches.
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2012-11-17_12-11-15_329.jpg -
2012-11-17_15-19-28_461.jpg
machinist@large
Active member
My apologies, 'sid, I WASN'T referring to you; just some of the weirdo's who have wandered in the door at some of the shop's I've worked for over the years. Also, look up a reference book called "Small time operator; how to start your business, pay your taxes, AND MAKE MONEY". The section on the type of customers you don't want is worth the cover price alone, even if you don't make the leap.
Now, back to the "DUNE CAT"!!!!!
Oh that poor kitten needs some love...
Is that still the original frame then or was it stretched too.
And if so, what do you intend;
make the frame you're currently working on compatible to both body sizes or just the smaller original?
'sid
Is that still the original frame then or was it stretched too.
And if so, what do you intend;
make the frame you're currently working on compatible to both body sizes or just the smaller original?
'sid
2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
It is easy to make a longer frame to accomodate. The frame on the stretched Cat is an original that someone reworked longer to match.
2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
Frame Progress
Here's today's update pic. The 3 bolt bearing retainer will not work so I will run the 2-bolt as original.
Here's today's update pic. The 3 bolt bearing retainer will not work so I will run the 2-bolt as original.
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NEW_FRAME_1.jpg
2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
Couple more Wilwood Brake shots
These shots show the close-up of the hydraulic master I reconfigured for adjustable ratio, and to add a parking brake. Also shows the Wilwood Disc Caliper on 8inch drilled/slotted rotor a little better.
These shots show the close-up of the hydraulic master I reconfigured for adjustable ratio, and to add a parking brake. Also shows the Wilwood Disc Caliper on 8inch drilled/slotted rotor a little better.
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Casey Davis
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Any updates?
2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
Yes, I have been running the Dune Cat really hard with both adults and kids. It has provided some excellent feedback for me to reflect into the production units underway now:
1. mechanical front drum brakes out - if they were hydraulic drum, the braking force would be balanced left to right, but the mechanical drums do not wear in evenly. This was the same problem automobiles had back in the 1920s before hydraulic brakes were invented. So I would only use these on a mini-bike or for the rear axle of of a go kart with a solid axle. Since the Dune Cat runs an automotive type differential, mechanical brakes are not a good choice on the rear either.
2. eliminating the steering column upright - the original Dune Cat frame has a steering column upright and rigid lower support. When the body flexes going over bumps, it rubs the steering shaft, causing an elongation of the hole where the shaft exits. Also, it makes the body vibrate when it touches the steering shaft. So, I am making the steering shaft lower support pivoting. And further eliminating the upright, and mounting the upper shaft bearing support to the body with a rubber isolator with chrome trim. This will maintain the shaft centering to the body hole, eliminate shaft contact with the body and lower the weight of the frame. It will also make assembly and removal of the steering shaft easier and make removing the body off the frame a lot quicker and easier without catching the steering shaft on the body.
3. adding a rear upright with rubber isolator padding - the original rear body supports are 3/4inch tubular struts coming off the rear axle bearing support weldment. This is inadequate for adult riders because the struts flex down too much, allowing the body to rub the steering shaft, and also touching the larger fuel tanks found on engines from the last 10 years. So, I have added a tubular upright with foam isolator pad allowing the body to rest on the pad across a 10inch wide section of the body, where it is sturdy and just behind the driver. Then, I will add light duty struts to support the rear fender mounting points so the fender doesn't vibrate around under operation. I am contemplating making the rear struts hinged so you can lift the body up.
4. Nose mounting to frame - the original design is not symmetric at the mounting points and is easy to get out of alignment to the frame. This throws the pedal slots out of alignment too easily. So I am looking to make a fool proof way to mount the front of body.
5. Cost reduction - it is easy run the cost up on this project. I am trying to find the balance of quality and price.
1. mechanical front drum brakes out - if they were hydraulic drum, the braking force would be balanced left to right, but the mechanical drums do not wear in evenly. This was the same problem automobiles had back in the 1920s before hydraulic brakes were invented. So I would only use these on a mini-bike or for the rear axle of of a go kart with a solid axle. Since the Dune Cat runs an automotive type differential, mechanical brakes are not a good choice on the rear either.
2. eliminating the steering column upright - the original Dune Cat frame has a steering column upright and rigid lower support. When the body flexes going over bumps, it rubs the steering shaft, causing an elongation of the hole where the shaft exits. Also, it makes the body vibrate when it touches the steering shaft. So, I am making the steering shaft lower support pivoting. And further eliminating the upright, and mounting the upper shaft bearing support to the body with a rubber isolator with chrome trim. This will maintain the shaft centering to the body hole, eliminate shaft contact with the body and lower the weight of the frame. It will also make assembly and removal of the steering shaft easier and make removing the body off the frame a lot quicker and easier without catching the steering shaft on the body.
3. adding a rear upright with rubber isolator padding - the original rear body supports are 3/4inch tubular struts coming off the rear axle bearing support weldment. This is inadequate for adult riders because the struts flex down too much, allowing the body to rub the steering shaft, and also touching the larger fuel tanks found on engines from the last 10 years. So, I have added a tubular upright with foam isolator pad allowing the body to rest on the pad across a 10inch wide section of the body, where it is sturdy and just behind the driver. Then, I will add light duty struts to support the rear fender mounting points so the fender doesn't vibrate around under operation. I am contemplating making the rear struts hinged so you can lift the body up.
4. Nose mounting to frame - the original design is not symmetric at the mounting points and is easy to get out of alignment to the frame. This throws the pedal slots out of alignment too easily. So I am looking to make a fool proof way to mount the front of body.
5. Cost reduction - it is easy run the cost up on this project. I am trying to find the balance of quality and price.
Casey Davis
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Is there an issue with the location of the mounting hole cut-outs with your mold? Looking at the pictures you have posted (front mounting bumper) / (Rear shot)— the holes are in different locations than originally.
I would really like to see how your mold stacks up to the original.
If I wanted to purchase a body from you and ship it here to find the holes do not match up to my original frames...I would frown. The locations should be "fixed", meaning they do not change on the body. It looks like if there is an issue it would be the location of the holes drilled on the bumper the mate the body to, or the final location of the mounting holes on the rear uprights.
Look at the pic of your bumper above, it appears different than the original in mounting locations.
Casey Davis
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The rear shot I'm ref is on the first page and the two rear mounting holes are skewed. the far rear almost not catching the mold.
Would it be possible for me to get more detailed images of these two areas before waiting for the ebay listing to come back up?
Finally, Are these holes "in" your mold or are they drilled out?
I wish I could purchase a body with only the pedal cut-outs made. If they are true and centered in the correct locations.
Would it be possible for me to get more detailed images of these two areas before waiting for the ebay listing to come back up?
Finally, Are these holes "in" your mold or are they drilled out?
I wish I could purchase a body with only the pedal cut-outs made. If they are true and centered in the correct locations.
2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
Casey,
Thank you for the questions. The mold was developed off an original body which I believe to be 1972 because of the seat cover type and decal type ("Sandy Claws"). The early seat covers attached differently than say the 1974 blue body with the "Confident Cat" decal.
For reference, the white body is SN001 off the mold. It is mounted on the original 1972 frame which I modified by replacing the long sections of tube with 1-1/4 tube and an angle iron front bumper mount. Although I was very careful to replicate position and shape, this is NOT original and could be affecting body mounting.
On my original body the front bumper bolts are 1-3/8 inward on the right hand side, and 1-7/8 inward on the left hand side. Reference is sitting in the vehicle as usual. The left side bolt slot occurs on the curve, whereas the right side slot occurs on the straight area.
Can you measure your bolt slot positions and post them?
For the rear, I placed them as original. I took a picture of the original 1974 body rear mount holes and they look to be placed differently.
About the holes and pedal slots, they are all solid when the body is made. I have to cut the holes in. I have not cut the holes in any of the bodies other than SN001. And it looks like it would be better to leave the mounting holes undrilled for people like yourself mounting to an original frame.
See attached pics:
- original restored '72 body mounted to its original modified frame (note damage to paint occurred during the process of making the new mold)
- original unrestored '74 body - notice the right side rear mounting front hole is different; they might have drilled these to fit the frame during assembly. That would be easy, and smart to do.
- new reproduction bodies showing mounting holes as finished, undrilled
Thank you for the questions. The mold was developed off an original body which I believe to be 1972 because of the seat cover type and decal type ("Sandy Claws"). The early seat covers attached differently than say the 1974 blue body with the "Confident Cat" decal.
For reference, the white body is SN001 off the mold. It is mounted on the original 1972 frame which I modified by replacing the long sections of tube with 1-1/4 tube and an angle iron front bumper mount. Although I was very careful to replicate position and shape, this is NOT original and could be affecting body mounting.
On my original body the front bumper bolts are 1-3/8 inward on the right hand side, and 1-7/8 inward on the left hand side. Reference is sitting in the vehicle as usual. The left side bolt slot occurs on the curve, whereas the right side slot occurs on the straight area.
Can you measure your bolt slot positions and post them?
For the rear, I placed them as original. I took a picture of the original 1974 body rear mount holes and they look to be placed differently.
About the holes and pedal slots, they are all solid when the body is made. I have to cut the holes in. I have not cut the holes in any of the bodies other than SN001. And it looks like it would be better to leave the mounting holes undrilled for people like yourself mounting to an original frame.
See attached pics:
- original restored '72 body mounted to its original modified frame (note damage to paint occurred during the process of making the new mold)
- original unrestored '74 body - notice the right side rear mounting front hole is different; they might have drilled these to fit the frame during assembly. That would be easy, and smart to do.
- new reproduction bodies showing mounting holes as finished, undrilled
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qtband
Well-known member
When you do #2 in post 71, make sure to take and post pictures. I may need to do this to mine.
2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
qtband,
Sure will. It is actually done now with the frame on the table. I just need to get some pictures of everything once I get the nose mount and rear struts done.
Sure will. It is actually done now with the frame on the table. I just need to get some pictures of everything once I get the nose mount and rear struts done.
2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
Hey Folks, I have some pics to show the recent progress. This post shows my change to frame design. Like I posted earlier here, the body flexes when going over bumps. The heavier the rider, the more flex. I want to minimize the flex to reduce wear & tear on the fiberglass body. But I do not want to eliminate the flex altogether because the ride will become harsher. Us older kids need a little break, right?!
The pics attached show I have added a vertical riser in the shape of an inverted 'U'. On top of the riser is a 12inch long section of thick wall foam rubber. The foam rubber serves as the body isolator and vibration damper. This vertical riser will take the majority of the rider's weight transfer from the fiberglass body. This area of the body is particularly sturdy.
Coming off this vertical riser are the rear fender struts. I will install a hinge plate which the body mounts to. This will allow the body to be raised up like a funny car dragster! And service will be a lot easier.
Shafi
The pics attached show I have added a vertical riser in the shape of an inverted 'U'. On top of the riser is a 12inch long section of thick wall foam rubber. The foam rubber serves as the body isolator and vibration damper. This vertical riser will take the majority of the rider's weight transfer from the fiberglass body. This area of the body is particularly sturdy.
Coming off this vertical riser are the rear fender struts. I will install a hinge plate which the body mounts to. This will allow the body to be raised up like a funny car dragster! And service will be a lot easier.
Shafi
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2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
Floating Steering Column
Attached pics show the floating steering column. I mentioned about this a few posts back. The benefits are:
1. Column doesn't rub the body hole opening
2. Weight reduction
3. Improved appearance
4. Added a delrin bushing top and bottom of shaft to provide better bearing surface over the split nylon bushing. And also to eliminate the steering shaft rusting and seizing to the column support.
Also notice I am moving the tie rods to the rear side of the front axle beam. This provides:
1. better column shaft geometry - perpendicular to the face of body
2. shorter column length - less weight
3. More ground clearance compared to the stock setup that hangs way down
4. Protection from forward impact damage
5. Clearance for pedal quadrant - no obstruction will allow for much better layout of pedals, cables, hydraulics
I will be putting this frame through the paces with body SN001. If all good, I hope to start selling some of these and getting some cash flow going on this project.
Attached pics show the floating steering column. I mentioned about this a few posts back. The benefits are:
1. Column doesn't rub the body hole opening
2. Weight reduction
3. Improved appearance
4. Added a delrin bushing top and bottom of shaft to provide better bearing surface over the split nylon bushing. And also to eliminate the steering shaft rusting and seizing to the column support.
Also notice I am moving the tie rods to the rear side of the front axle beam. This provides:
1. better column shaft geometry - perpendicular to the face of body
2. shorter column length - less weight
3. More ground clearance compared to the stock setup that hangs way down
4. Protection from forward impact damage
5. Clearance for pedal quadrant - no obstruction will allow for much better layout of pedals, cables, hydraulics
I will be putting this frame through the paces with body SN001. If all good, I hope to start selling some of these and getting some cash flow going on this project.
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RacingDreamz
New member
The Cat's are looking fantastic. Can't wait to see the finished product. Any chance you can let the folks at Racing Dreamz get a sneak peak? 
2S Keisler
The Dune Cat
Push to get these to market
Hi All,
I am gonna push to get these first three complete. I have decided on using the MCP master cylinger to get more stopping power due to its larger cylinder bore.
I've attached a picture of one of the 2 Sisters Keisler burnin' a trail this summer in the '72 original used to make the mold and frame.
I will be posting new pics and links to the finished products on ebay shortly.
Shafi
Hi All,
I am gonna push to get these first three complete. I have decided on using the MCP master cylinger to get more stopping power due to its larger cylinder bore.
I've attached a picture of one of the 2 Sisters Keisler burnin' a trail this summer in the '72 original used to make the mold and frame.
I will be posting new pics and links to the finished products on ebay shortly.
Shafi
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