Big plans-small experience (first kart)

[scott_shot]

to quote FABROMAN's Sig " Nothing is impossible to fix if you have enough time, money & patience" This sums up my entire project (i prefer 'mission')....

I picked up a second hand off road buggy with everything on it except the engine for a bargain 75.00 Scottish pounds. As you would i didn't expect much but apart from it being a bit tight for an adult i was happy with my purchase

Owned for a couple weeks now i've found its flaws and again not too shabby at all, really all that would need done to get running is an engine and basic wiring, but i wouldn't be signed up to this cornucopia of information known as DKCG if that's all i wanted to do











WHAT I AM SCHEMING
*well for starters i need more room for driver, not loads but certainly the seat needs moved back slightly.
* Have stubbornly gone with the idea of independent suspension all round ( NEED HELP CHOOSING EXACT STYLE)
This is to support a 500cc engine of witch i haven't chose,500cc may be 100cc either way.Scince though i have wondered if this may be slightly too much power)
'quickshift' sequential stickshift( a forward backward stick with a gear indicator of some sort.
new adequate cage design
and uprated parts all over suit.

I Have around £1000 to do this.
As title says this is my 1st build and im learning every day, (also im not welding got an experienced uncle on the case) infact im sorted for allot of help so very confident in time i will have my 'creation' come to life I also have as long as it takes, no outgoings due to living back with the parents and a good although very basic knowedge on cars which i can apply.

I WILL need help and i wouldn't consider half of this if i didn't think you guys on here were interested, but pleased to say your all phenomenal in your advice.

Ps how does "THE FLYING SCOTSMAN" sound for a name for her love to know what you all think

 

[landuse]

I still think 500cc is too much

 

[HaM551]

I still think 500cc is too much

Way to crush his dreams


Although for safety reasons yeah it probably is.

 

[fowler]

if u are going to comletely redo the suspaension thenuare going to redo the steering and brakes
the mods wil also requre roll cage mods

so 500 is huge but shold be ok
250 2 stroke wouild be a wicked size

to put iderpendent rear on it will require some pretty expensive parts im not sure $1000pounds will cover all the stuff u want

depending on what u want to do with this u can choose between single a arm which is simple and easy but gives limited travel and handleing
double a arm, which gives much better handleing but is rather complex to get all the angles right and it requires a narrow rear end
trailing arms, which is aslo simple and easy to make, gives u good travel and handling and allows for u to have a wide rear end
3 link, a combination of trailing arms and double a arms
its basicaly a stronger version of the trailing arms

id highly recokmend u redo the from suspension
its pretty bad

do u think u could get some better quality pics of the front end
like the suspension and steering rack

tyres are ok but for 500cc they will need to be bigger

can u take a pic of the kart side on and as square as u can
its easier to draw the required cage mods than to describe them

 

[mysteryboy28]

for a buggy this size i would sick with the swingarm rear-end. IRS is really best suited for something that is going to have a wide rear end and has the room to accomodate CV axles and drive spools and such. look online for single seater karts and buggies that have IRS - the rear ends are wide! plus the design, geometry, and amount of fabrication and work that goes into them is a pain in the arse.

the front suspension is decent for the size of this buggy too.

if it was me, i would hack off the cheesy swingarm, get the leg-room you want and build a new beefier swingarm. a nice 340cc sled motor would be great on something this size! you won't have forward/reverse gear shifting, but tons of power and speed for cheap.

 

[scott_shot]

I still think 500cc is too much

Way to crush his dreams


Although for safety reasons yeah it probably is.

Its all good i think you all need to get me told when i come out with crazy ideas im happy as long as its plenty torque
to climb some quite small say 35ft size but steep hills yet enough to fly around the tracks with throttle to spare

if u are going to completely redo the suspension then u are going to redo the steering and brakes
the mods will also require roll cage mods

so 500 is huge but shold be ok
250 2 stroke wouild be a wicked size

to put interdependent rear on it will require some pretty expensive parts im not sure $1000pounds will cover all the stuff u want

depending on what u want to do with this u can choose between single a arm which is simple and easy but gives limited travel and handling
double a arm, which gives much better handling but is rather complex to get all the angles right and it requires a narrow rear end
trailing arms, which is aslo simple and easy to make, gives u good travel and handling and allows for u to have a wide rear end
3 link, a combination of trailing arms and double a arms
its basically a stronger version of the trailing arms

id highly recommend u redo the from suspension
its pretty bad

do u think u could get some better quality pics of the front end
like the suspension and steering rack

tyres are ok but for 500cc they will need to be bigger

can u take a pic of the kart side on and as square as u can
its easier to draw the required cage mods than to describe them

Cheers for all that Steering and brakes are defo getting uprated too best poss, and cage i wold like to redesign for the whole aesthetics but of course a big part of safety.

Admit idly my camera, and my skills suck haha but i will do my best to get more clear photos. and out of interest hows google sketch up for a free design program? anyone use it?

Whats the thoughts on a swing arm rear end? basically whats the disadvantages? it seems a quite popular choice. Suspension choice im thinking quad bike shocks all round and front will be some double a arms front ( Can quad bike A arms be used?) and depends what i go with on the back. Wheels and tyres should be changed, certainly the rear anyway. Again how would a quad bike axle do? A 250cc 2 stroke would be im not finding many 2 stroke options at the moment but will be keeping my eye out.

for a buggy this size i would sick with the swingarm rear-end. IRS is really best suited for something that is going to have a wide rear end and has the room to accommodate CV axles and drive spools and such. look online for single seater karts and buggies that have IRS - the rear ends are wide! plus the design, geometry, and amount of fabrication and work that goes into them is a pain in the arse.

the front suspension is decent for the size of this buggy too.

if it was me, i would hack off the cheesy swingarm, get the leg-room you want and build a new beefier swingarm. a nice 340cc sled motor would be great on something this size! you won't have forward/reverse gear shifting, but tons of power and speed for cheap.

I have read through a couple of your builds and take your advice about the IRS serious as the work you have done looks quality. I am looking to widen the rear al im leangthening but upon a tripto the scrappies i get what you mean, CV'S all seem veryy long lol.

As for snowmobile, gawd i wsh buim yet to find a single one hear across the pond even with all the snow in Scotland lol

Cheers all Need one last thing, What to buy first? eg Engine, suspension, etc.... I Guess engine to figure out mounts etc then build around the engine?

 

[landuse]

I would suggest getting a decent engine and building around that

 

[fowler]

a swing arm is ok
if u mount the engine in the frame then it is an average setup
it isnt the best for handleing because what one wheel does is mirrorerd by the other
its worse than a solid axil car as u get no articulatoion

if u mount the engine on the swing arm
its a very cheap and easy method but i wouldnt even go there personally
it goes against everything iv learnt about suspension

 

[scott_shot]

I would suggest getting a decent engine and building around that

Cheers my thoughts exactly, can a road bike engine handle the stress off road?

a swing arm is ok
if u mount the engine in the frame then it is an average setup
it isnt the best for handleing because what one wheel does is mirrorerd by the other
its worse than a solid axil car as u get no articulatoion

if u mount the engine on the swing arm
its a very cheap and easy method but i wouldnt even go there personally
it goes against everything iv learnt about suspension

Yeh i guess it would suck for hill climbing lol

Can Cv axles be used from Cars? then i could get some hidden gems from the scrapyard. and if so would this mean anything more to think sbout engine wise?

i may gather up the parts over a longer period of time, go with the swing arm, and either remod exsisting kart next year or build a whole new buggy from scratch and keep that as my longterm project and do it right (i had planned to do from scratch in first place) and that way im fleeing about at the start of next year as ive plenty of flat off road places tht will satisfy my urge for now

 

[landuse]

Cars are generally too big to use the axle from

 

[scott_shot]

Cars are generally too big to use the axle from

even our wee dinky ones over here haha na i guessed so thnx to quote myself think i will start with a swing arm and longterm build a IRS buggy with from the ground up lol

 

[HaM551]

even our wee dinky ones over here haha na i guessed so thnx to quote myself think i will start with a swing arm and longterm build a IRS buggy with from the ground up lol

that way you can make it to fit your needs. However it is more time consuming and will cost more.

 

[fowler]

cars are perfect thats where all buggy axles come from

the flash ones are from a porshe most are from VW or arfter market manufactures

the reason is there cvs are a stand alone setup and require an easy to make hub at each end that the shaft bolts to
most cvs are slined thought the diff and hubs which makes them hard to reuse in other aplications

if u can find some good cvs that u can mod then go for it
its usually easiest to add the matching the hubs and diff into the design
im going to use a reproduction of the 930cvs but on a budget..
i know mysteryboy added splined cvs in a few of his biulds so wait for him


street bikes are the most common enignes for buggys
mainly because of the size and power
they dont like the power on and off shock that offroad driving gives but that isnt the end of the world
theres everything from honda cb125s to kawa zx14s running around everywhere

but the best engines are ag quad bikes because they have reverse and are generally built for the heavier load

iv got a honda cm250 in one buggy and a suzuki gsxr 600 in the other
the honda is loving it
the suzuki isnt running yet

 

[landuse]

cars are perfect thats where all buggy axles come from

Once again.....my bad I had better keep my mouth/keyboard shut

 

[fowler]

nop reasonable assumption

axiles and steering racks is about all u get outta a car
everything else is too heavy

untill u get to the prolite buggies
then car stuff s too weak

 

[mysteryboy28]

i like threads like this.

i'd love to see a motor with reverse installed on a kart, in action!

 

[scott_shot]

that way you can make it to fit your needs. However it is more time consuming and will cost more.

Yeh true that, Thin ive caught the go kart building bug so already planning my 2nd :arf:

 

[scott_shot]

SOo spent last night stiping her down to the basics all is left is frame, susspension, wheels and steering, also split fromt from rear, to get a better look and picture in my mind what to do and where.









Cant decide where s best to chop and extend though, your thoughts apreciated

 

[scott_shot]

Remember im new to mechanical engineering haha, slightly worried the angles of a couple of the bars are gonna leave me wayyy out let me know if this is silly lol oh and theres the fromt suspension in detail[

 

[HaM551]

ive been told by others, dont extend the frame unless you have too, cause it messes up the steering. can you not just mount the engine further back and then move the seat back ?

but that may be more work