Best engine bolts?

[Tpdingo]

I took my Manco Dingo for a ride for the first time in a long while and as much as it was a blast(got it to 36.5mph), engine bolts were rattling loose even though they were torqued to ****. Should I just get some washers and nylock bolts? Lock washers? I really don't want to go with locktite if I can avoid it. Also what is the bolt size I need for a standard Dingo 286? I'm thinking a washer and nylock should be good enough.

 

[BigWes]

Are you talking about the bolts holding it down to the mount plate? I just use a good grade 8 bolt with a flat washer and lock washer on the nut side. I just use quality hardware with a good close fit in the bolt holes so the bolts don't work around. That is key to prevent them from coming loose as well. A poor fitting piece of hardware will often fail to maintain effectiveness. If all else fails you can always use carriage bolts and nuts with safety wire holes and go that route.

Wes

 

[Tpdingo]

Are you talking about the bolts holding it down to the mount plate? I just use a good grade 8 bolt with a flat washer and lock washer on the nut side. I just use quality hardware with a good close fit in the bolt holes so the bolts don't work around. That is key to prevent them from coming loose as well. A poor fitting piece of hardware will often fail to maintain effectiveness. If all else fails you can always use carriage bolts and nuts with safety wire holes and go that route.

Wes

Can't do that the bolts are special ones for the TC/30 so it's only the nuts I can change.

 

[Hellion]

I’m confused. I have no idea which nuts and bolts you’re talking about.

Grade 8 is overkill on engine mount bolts, IMO. I use standard grade (grade 2, no markings) 5/16” bolts (or the regular grade 5 in a pinch). I haven’t busted one yet—then again I’m not imitating Evel Knievel either.

Nylock nuts blow in my opinion. I prefer split locking washers or heck, even star washers. There are locking nuts that I think have a pinch on the outer thread so they get tight as you tighten them down. Those are good.

 

[mckutzy]

 

[BigWes]

I’m confused. I have no idea which nuts and bolts you’re talking about.

Grade 8 is overkill on engine mount bolts, IMO. I use standard grade (grade 2, no markings) 5/16” bolts (or the regular grade 5 in a pinch). I haven’t busted one yet—then again I’m not imitating Evel Knievel either.

Nylock nuts blow in my opinion. I prefer split locking washers or heck, even star washers. There are locking nuts that I think have a pinch on the outer thread so they get tight as you tighten them down. Those are good.

I use grade 8 bolts mainly because Chinese steel sucks and I still occasionally break a bolt now and again. And I buy them in bulk.

Obviously he is not talking about the same mount bolts I am...

I never use nylock nuts on anything that gets hot.

Some auto parts Stores sells nuts called prevailing torque nuts. Those work well. They are a lock nut.

Flange nuts often have locking serrations built in.

I prefer a split ring lock washer as stated earlier. I just call it a lock washer. The star washers I do use on nonmetal items like AR15 pistol grips and stuff like that. I use an internal star lock on a 1/4-20 Allen bolt. It bites well into a polymer grip and doesn't let go.

If none of this helps I'll dig around in my junk bin and take pics

Wes

 

[Hellion]

Pics aren’t a bad idea. There’s a wide range of strange (to the layman) specialty fasteners and the terminology thereof is also just as vague or uncommon.

Frankly I’d be thrilled to see what you use and have access to as an aircraft mechanic....

 

[landuse]

If you are talking about the bolts that hold the engine down on the frame, then all I ever use are Nylock nuts with lock washers

There is nothing wrong with using loctite on them. You can always just use the one that isn't "permanent"

 

[Dingocat]

Are they more like studs with the tc jackshaft plate? Because if that's what you're talking about, mine is doing the same thing with lock washers on it, probably going to add loctite.

 

[Tpdingo]

Are they more like studs with the tc jackshaft plate? Because if that's what you're talking about, mine is doing the same thing with lock washers on it, probably going to add loctite.

Yes that's exactly it and I was probably going to get loctite as well.

What is the nut size?

 

[BigWes]

Pics aren’t a bad idea. There’s a wide range of strange (to the layman) specialty fasteners and the terminology thereof is also just as vague or uncommon.

Frankly I’d be thrilled to see what you use and have access to as an aircraft mechanic....

Here is a few prices of standard aviation hardware, notice the built in locking features for safety wire to be attached. There are other examples but all this stuff is easily found on the internet. It's not a secret. One thing to realize is aircraft hardware has different thread counts than SAE hardware so for normal usage it is incompatible with standard around the garage or home usage. I typically would not use it on a kart.


The first is a 12 point lock nut. Usually high torque application and often close tolerance.



Typical hardware with holes for applying safety wire or lockwire as some call it.



There are all sorts of various styles of locking mechanism on bolts and nuts. Mainly castellated nuts for cotter pins and drilled bolt heads for wire.

It's all primarily designed to keep it all from rattling loose and going somewhere it doesn't need to go or from coming apart and preventing say a flight control from working. In other words to keep someone from getting killed.

Wes

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Yeahh, uhmmm. *cough*
No offense Wes, and I know this was just to satisfy Mckutzy's thirst for pics, but that kinda hardware is just a bit overkill.
Not necessarily a bad idea, just a little hard to obtain.
FYI Tpdingo, My engine mounting bolts are just plain nuts and bolts torqued down, and there have been absolutely no problems whatsoever. But of course that isn't working for you obviously.

 

[mckutzy]

Ya well they typically solve many a problem.......

I forget what the bolts I use on my bike...but they use a 1/2" socket... so I think thats a 5/16".. and of course if it matters, 18tpi...
Lock and flat washers...

 

[Kartorbust]

I'd probably use blue loctite to keep them from rattling loose. Lock washers and nylock nuts work okay, but not great. A nord lock washer would work the best. Its knurled on both sides and dig into the surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSOjxU3pdSU

 

[BigWes]

I'm going to post a picture of some nuts like I buy from the parts store that are called prevailing torque nuts...they are a lock nut. These work well at staying in place.

Oh by the way JTSpunkwagon, the racing guys use hardware like this(aircraft type above with safety wire)all the time on high revving race car engines and on some high revving go kart racing engines as well. You just haven't seen everything in your lack of experience in your short lived little life yet.

Notice the nuts in the package bottom middle.



I'll post some more pics for you later JTSpunkwagon...just for you, your brother, and the princess...maybe I can teach you guys something and maybe you'll realize you really don't already know everything already.

Wes

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

I meant for a yard kart like the Dingo Tpdingo is referring to it would be overkill.
For a race kart it certainly makes sense.

 

[mckutzy]

Drilling bolts is a pain.... but worth it in the end.....
You got something that needs it... of course drill....
Needs to show it...it helps to drill it...Tells people you have a bit of patience...


Showing it....
At the time this is pretty much all I got into at the moment, had all my small drillbits break, then got lazy and didnt finish all the rest of the hardware... so I just kept the rear fender...

 

[BigWes]

I meant for a yard kart like the Dingo Tpdingo is referring to it would be overkill.
For a race kart it certainly makes sense.

It wouldn't be Overkill if nothing else worked would it? Install some nuts with safety wire holes in the nuts, torque the nuts, the install the wire. Adds about five additional minutes to a regular install. He just needs the nuts and wire, problem solved. Never come loose again...EVER...or just use locknut's, locktite. Or JB weld lol... Ever!

Wes

 

[Tpdingo]

I do know my neighbor has lockwire and lockwire wrenches....hmmm that might sound kinda cool to have on there. I might try that out since I don't plan on removing the engine any time soon. If I can't find anything I'll just go straight for the regular nuts and lockwashers given the serrated nuts that came with the kart even when torqued to **** don't hold for ****. First, let me to go ace and see what they have.

 

[BigWes]

There are jigs out there designed so you can drill existing nuts and bolts for safety wire mods

Search the net, see what you find. Don't buy wire twisting pliers either, you don't need them, real mechs don't use them anyway. I use my hands, duckbills, and dikes.