Bent tie rods

C

Cartinfun

Active member
Messages
112
Reaction score
94
So, just the one day of riding the newly restored kart and both tie rods are bent. What the heck did I do wrong? I didn't hit any big rocks or go off any jumps.

What's the solution? I can't be replacing tie rods every time I take it out.

On the ride home I could tell that it was steering funny. I thought I hadn't gotten the alignment right, but now that I see this I know at least part of the reason.
 

Attachments

  • 16809805171592682056121745337315.jpg
    16809805171592682056121745337315.jpg
    2.6 MB · Views: 16
BaconBitRacing

BaconBitRacing

Well-known member
Messages
2,303
Reaction score
1,476
Location
N.C.
I don't have experience, but maybe upgraded tie rods, but I thing some kart pictures would help. Pictures of the spindle, steering connection, and wheels and tires. If you upgraded your tires to a bigger size that could be part of it. Also, did you do any mods to remove slop in the steering? That slop may have been built in from the factory to help save tie rods. Just some theories.
 
C

Cartinfun

Active member
Messages
112
Reaction score
94
BaconBitRacing said:
I don't have experience, but maybe upgraded tie rods, but I thing some kart pictures would help. Pictures of the spindle, steering connection, and wheels and tires. If you upgraded your tires to a bigger size that could be part of it. Also, did you do any mods to remove slop in the steering? That slop may have been built in from the factory to help save tie rods. Just some theories.
Click to expand...
I just put the shocks in the inner most mounting hole on the A arms. They were in the middle so it was a little bit lower.

I didn't do any modifications to the steering (that I'm aware of) the kart had no tie rods when I got it and the Pittman arm was all bent up and I straightened it out.

I don't know what the tire size was from the factory. I replaced the tires with the same size that were on there when I got it. It hadn't been running in YEARS and didn't even have an engine when I got it.
 

Attachments

  • 16809812188828845305393020797651.jpg
    16809812188828845305393020797651.jpg
    3.3 MB · Views: 18
  • 16809812381207334203044800270369.jpg
    16809812381207334203044800270369.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 17
  • 16809812686315056967724297269710.jpg
    16809812686315056967724297269710.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 18
C

Cartinfun

Active member
Messages
112
Reaction score
94
BaconBitRacing said:
I don't have experience, but maybe upgraded tie rods, but I thing some kart pictures would help. Pictures of the spindle, steering connection, and wheels and tires. If you upgraded your tires to a bigger size that could be part of it. Also, did you do any mods to remove slop in the steering? That slop may have been built in from the factory to help save tie rods. Just some theories.
Click to expand...

Oh close up of spindle...
 

Attachments

  • 16809816072413025671011510009882.jpg
    16809816072413025671011510009882.jpg
    1.7 MB · Views: 7
  • 1680981630239811676325182435638.jpg
    1680981630239811676325182435638.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 8
BaconBitRacing

BaconBitRacing

Well-known member
Messages
2,303
Reaction score
1,476
Location
N.C.
Okay, for one, great pictures. I would say your issue is the third hole shock mount. Think about the extra leverage force on them, that could do it. I would say, try it in stock position, or go with beefier tie rods. Before you buy anything we should let our more experienced friends chime in. Also make sure all the ends move freely without friction or binding.
 
C

Cartinfun

Active member
Messages
112
Reaction score
94
BaconBitRacing said:
Okay, for one, great pictures. I would say your issue is the third hole shock mount. Think about the extra leverage force on them, that could do it. I would say, try it in stock position, or go with beefier tie rods. Before you buy anything we should let our more experienced friends chime in. Also make sure all the ends move freely without friction or binding.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I JUST changed the shocks to the third hole. They were in the second holes when the tie rods got bent.
 
Bansil

Bansil

Painter of gnomes....
Messages
1,414
Reaction score
1,109
Location
Mnts of the farthest NE TN you can go
Only one way to bend them....make them be forced to go a direction they weren't ment for.

They go side to side by nature, so a couple ideas.
1) you hit stuff..dugh...but!
2)Since they both bent it seems that during suspension travel When travel stops tires kept going , stretch or compressed the metal.
3)so maybe the bumps tops are too short allowing excess travel or they don't exist.

Only way to bend stuff is it mechanical stops and then is forced past the limits.

I would look at establishing stop points in steering and go from there
 
C

Cartinfun

Active member
Messages
112
Reaction score
94
I see what you guys are saying, but it looked like they were both bent front to back before I took them off. Not bent up and down.

The suspension bottoms out A arm to frame, no bump stops and there are no holes in the are to look like there ever was bump stops.
 
C

Cartinfun

Active member
Messages
112
Reaction score
94
Bansil said:
Only one way to bend them....make them be forced to go a direction they weren't ment for.

They go side to side by nature, so a couple ideas.
1) you hit stuff..dugh...but!
2)Since they both bent it seems that during suspension travel When travel stops tires kept going , stretch or compressed the metal.
3)so maybe the bumps tops are too short allowing excess travel or they don't exist.

Only way to bend stuff is it mechanical stops and then is forced past the limits.

I would look at establishing stop points in steering and go from there
Click to expand...
Stop points in steering with the shaft or the tires?
 
C

Cartinfun

Active member
Messages
112
Reaction score
94
Denny said:
On the spindles.
Click to expand...
Ahhhh that makes total sense... a rock might have forced the wheel/spindle too far and bent it. So limit how far the spindle can travel.

Any ideas on what beefier tie rods to get along with that?
 
S

Snaker

Active member
Messages
341
Reaction score
182
Steering limits or stops are definitely a thing and often found on karts, riding mowers, etc.
Another thing that can factor in is the angle limits within the heim joints.
I did some projects of increasing suspension travel on older snowmobiles.
The angle limits of the existing heims was often maxed out and rods would start binding.
All that changes throughout the suspension travel AND steering angle.
You have to work all that movement to be sure.

Your photo looks like the heims are a type with the ball having flats on each side.
Those usually have the least amount of angle and bind up easily.
Having shims or built in offsets can give more room for angles
Heim joints with the ball on a threaded stud usually give lots of angle

Hope this link works to show some examples

heims joint - Bing images
 
BaconBitRacing

BaconBitRacing

Well-known member
Messages
2,303
Reaction score
1,476
Location
N.C.
C

Cartinfun

Active member
Messages
112
Reaction score
94
Master Hack said:
Cone washers are available to help heim joints get a little more angle and/or prevent binding. I use ‘em on all heim joints weaher they need ‘em or not. Being the cheap F*** that l am i make my owm.
Click to expand...
So how do you make your own? Just stack a couple washers getting smaller diameter as you go up? To use them my tie rod end would have to have a long enough bolt though, right? I will have to check, this seems like a good idea, along with limiting the travel of the spindles. I think im gonna bend the rods back straight (as possible) and then just have a friend weld some reinforcements on them.
 
Master Hack

Master Hack

Well-known member
Messages
4,092
Reaction score
6,488
Location
Mountain top Labratory
Cartinfun said:
So how do you make your own
Click to expand...
Well, it takes a lathe. I take a piece of tubing with the same ID as the bolt and turn a taper on the end then part it off at the required length. But that's just me, I don't have to wait on delivery and I can make any length I need. Put one one each side of the helm joint for best results. And yes It would require a longer bolt. You can buy those things for whatever size bolt you need. While you're at It I think you should make a beefier set of rods. Not sure what your fabrication capabilities are, but a piece of 1" DOM tubing would make a near indestructible tie rod. Buy the bungs you need to fit the Heims and have yer buddy weld them onto the tubing. If I'm not making any sense I get get a pic...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top