Azuza frame Build

[chancer]

I decided to just order an Azuza frame on ebay and build a nice little yard kart. I have most of the parts 95% from another build that never worked out.

Got the frame today. kinda wonder about the way they merged the two bars in the front see pic 3. Sorry that pic is upside down. but that is actually daylight and a 1/4" gap. I may want to reweld or add some metal there. Any suggestions?

I started adding a couple bars fro my seat frame. That new app Carl posted for fish mouthing or "coping" the tubes works great.
pic 4 and 5.
http://metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi

Just do not forget to add the extra length you will be grinding out. pic 6. Funny I remembered the first time!

 

[landuse]

Nice start. I would probably try and run an extra weld bead on the are in the third pic.

 

[firemanjim]

Nah, I'd weld in some things plate on both sides, or at least the outer side, cut to the same shape.

 

[chancer]

I did weld an extra bead on them, but they look bad with that gap, like some redneck used a BFH to make that connection. I am thinking plate them over on the outside mainly for appearance.
Been workin on the seat frame, steering wheel support and front pedal extension. More pics soon.

 

[chancer]

Anybody know of build plans to make spindles with bearings for the kingpins. To fit standard 2 1/2" kart mounts and 5/8 king pin bolt. I have heard of them here but I have only seen them on race karts. I made a set for my other kart but am looking to improve on the design.
"FMJ" says they are on all his karts.

 

[firemanjim]

Anybody know of build plans to make spindles with bearings for the kingpins. To fit standard 2 1/2" kart mounts and 5/8 king pin bolt. I have heard of them here but I have only seen them on race karts. I made a set for my other kart but am looking to improve on the design.
"FMJ" says they are on all his karts.

Hmmm, don't remember saying that, but you CAN make them. It's not difficult, if you have access to a lathe.....that is. I can draw you up some plans, but with no lathe, it would be near impossible to make.
You could always slide in a nylon washer and keep it oiled. It gives a smoother feel with no clunking.....
Actually, there is a few things you can do to get better action at the spindle, but they require fabrication.... There is no "plug and play " for something like this.....

 

[chancer]

Ok. Thanks Jim. Sorry I mis remembered who said what. It was Rokman.
Here is what I did previously.
I found some 1 1/2 pipe with a 1 3/8 id that would accept standard 5/8 wheel bearings.
Cut the pipe to 2 1/2" to fit in the steering knuckle on the frame
Welded on my spindle.
Welded on my steering arm.

This seems to work great so far and the steering was very quick and touchy till you get used to it. It did also widen the front of the Kart by 3/4" on each side.

I did not photo this as I made them but I will post pics of the finished spindles.

 

[firemanjim]

Well, that's sounds ok, but 1/8" thick isn't really great considering the amount of forces they will see. And you would still need something to hold the bearings in place, inside that tube. You would need a 1 & 3/8" tube to go between the bearings outer races. And a smaller diameter tube for the king pin to slide into, and solidify the inner races. A steel washer on each end, between the spindle bracket ears....
Maybe if you round off the bolt head, then drill a hole in the outer tube big enough so the bolt head sits on the inner tube, then weld the snot out it. Add a gusset underneath.....

 

[chancer]

I left out a few details you addressed. I do have a smaller pipe inside that rides the inner races, and a small washer/bushing between the spindle and bracket ears.

Let me go take some pics and see what you think. I can measure cut weld and think, but no lathe.

 

[firemanjim]

Cutting, welding, and grinding,,,,, yep...... That's all you need.
No, seriously... Sounds like you got it down. I'll wait for the pics.....

 

[chancer]

Ok here is what I have.
This is a redneck proto type. (no offense to any real rednecks)
pic1 The tube I used is actually Yes a galvanized fence post. (Yes I know grind off Galv before welding)
The bearings fit loose in that tube. Sooo the green tube is from an old porch swing. The green tube fits tight (pressed in) inside the grey pipe.
The bearings fit nice and snug in the green tube.
pic 2 and 3 are the bearings and spacers that stack together inside the pipe then in between the hangar ears.

The problem was under weight it all slipped down. So I welded a small piece of metal inside to give something to hold the outside edge of the bearing from falling in and pushing the opposite bearing out.
I think all I need is the right size tubes and this would be good design.
OR maybe just flanged bearings.

 

[firemanjim]

Go to a scrap yard or steel supply house. A lot of times, the steel supply houses have damaged stock that they sell pieces of for pennies on the dollar. Basically at scrap weight cost..... You'd be better off, than using the tubing you have. That stuff is kinda thin.... Look at this drawing I did... I hope it makes sense. If not, just ask.....

 

[chancer]

Ok on your drawing the bottom left shows 1&1/4 with 1 3/8 inside of it? did you mean 1 3/4 outside. Also the center pipe 3/4 id. I would use 5/8 id because I have 5/8 king pin bolts.
Any ideas on what size and wall tube these would be. Since on this project I.D. becomes as important as O.D.
Yep always check the remnants bin at the Metal supply house

 

[firemanjim]

Should be 1.625" od and that gives you a 1.3875" id..... Then there would be a 1.375" od tube pushed inside. Wall thickness is .125" ,so 2 tubes together gives you a 1/4" thick spindle barrel. That's a lot stronger than just one thinner tube.....

 

[chancer]

:Cool thanks for the help Jim, I asked about the sizes because I am not that familiar with tube sizes. Just due to lack of experience. I do know that 1/2" gas pipe is a real nice fit on 5/8 bolts if you grind the inside weld down.
I am looking forward to making these spindles on Monday, today we are going to the desert to go shoot .22s and then taking the kart out, Give my daughter a chance to ride somewhere besides our yard.

 

[Poboy kartman]

:today we are going to the desert to go shoot .22s

Cool.....yeah....I don't like those big tire karts either.......oh.. wait....nevermind....

 

[chancer]

Cool.....yeah....I don't like those big tire karts either.......oh.. wait....nevermind....

 

[chancer]

Should be 1.625" od and that gives you a 1.3875" id..... Then there would be a 1.375" od tube pushed inside. Wall thickness is .125" ,so 2 tubes together gives you a 1/4" thick spindle barrel. That's a lot stronger than just one thinner tube.....

Do you think I really need 1/4 thick spindle barrel? because
I also had the idea of finding a heavy wall tube for the spindle barrel that has an 1.375" id then use flanged bearings. That way I do not need the inner pipe to keep the bearings from sliding down. This would be a simpler lighter design.
At this point I also see why having a lathe or the money to have these made would be cool. but paying someone is not nearly as much fun as DIY.

 

[firemanjim]

Do you think I really need 1/4 thick spindle barrel? because
I also had the idea of finding a heavy wall tube for the spindle barrel that has an 1.375" id then use flanged bearings. That way I do not need the inner pipe to keep the bearings from sliding down. This would be a simpler lighter design.
At this point I also see why having a lathe or the money to have these made would be cool. but paying someone is not nearly as much fun as DIY.

No, I wouldn't recommend it.... Just using the clips to hold the bearings ain't gonna work. You NEED the inner spacer to make sure they stay in place. It's a must, unless the spindle barrel has a step on the inside to keep the bearings from going any further in.
I would really prefer you use at least a minimum of 1/4" thick wall tube, or combination of 2 to get to 1/4"..... The barrels see a tremendous amount of force/pressure, when you are ripping around. I don't want this to collapse on you or break, and then I gotta send you a "get well soon" card. I'm not great at mailing stuff.....
If its just you as a driver, you can risk your own hinney if you want. BUT, if your kids are gonna ride, or any one else, then I demand you use no less than a 1/4" wall thickness. rolleyes To me, IMHO, you WILL break the spindle if you go your route. I've been doing karts for a couple days now, and I just see red flags all over that plan.....
To build a set like I drew, you only need a drill, grinder, a saw to cut the tube, and a welder. If I had the right size tubing, I could whip out a set like that in a couple hours. It's a simple design, and fairly sturdy. And adding upper and lower gussets at the axle would sturdy it up quite a bit too....

 

[chancer]

Yeah I read you are not good at mailing stuff. and I don't want a get well soon card. So I will find the right tube this week and use your plan, I think I whipped out the second of the two I made previously in a just an hour or two. It is a simple design and I think well worth it. The standard Metal on metal design of most homemade or even retail spindles just bugs me, plus my time is free and these are cheaper.