Flyinhillbilly
The great cornholio
Ah, we're saying the same thing then I think.
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Advanced Hemi 212cc Predator Build
- Thread starter bob58o
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Jrgunn5150
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It's nearly impossible to isolate one aspect of a camshaft and ONLY change it, it's all tied together.
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Lol see why my head hurts.
Now your heads hurt too.
Now your heads hurt too.
Jrgunn5150
Rudderless
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I've been at work since 10 AM when I usually arrive at roughly 5pm, so my head ewas going to hurt no matter what lol.
chancer
ɔ ɥ ɐ u ɔ ǝ ɹ
Wait all this Technical nonsense... Back to topic...
How many Goats did you offer?
By the way the Chi wood forest is in the Midwest not the Middle East.
BTW
I about Crapped myself when I read that offered her Dad and Bro GOATS!!!
How many Goats did you offer?
By the way the Chi wood forest is in the Midwest not the Middle East.
BTW
I about Crapped myself when I read that offered her Dad and Bro GOATS!!!
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Just need 3 more Hi-Comp Engines now!
AR3910X as discussed.
AR3910X as discussed.
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bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Not enough!
But I bought her a chicken pita and cheese fries yesterday....so I guess you can say things are getting pretty serious.
BTW her brother lives in TX.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v6ED1ADAHeY
---------- Post added at 05:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 AM ----------
Have to get stuff done today, studs or not.
Going to get the head, intake, and exhaust assembled. Going to drain the oil and clean everything.
I wanted to leave the TC as is for now... For comparision, then switch springs.
Launch can be near 2k or 3k with my garter spring options. Also have the green (red) and yellow driven springs for the 30 series.
I topped out at 5150 RPM and was at 0-30 mph in 9.5s with stock TC, stage 1 kit, 16" Tires, 7.5:1 gearing on a large chassis with roll cage.
When I had it out testing before taking it apart, it only got to 5500 RPM (IIRC).
If it doesn't hit at least 6000 RPM on the kart with the same gearing and tires, I will be very disappointed. 7000 would be near 50 mph with this setup.
When it goes on the Mini bike, I'll move to Detroit.
ezcome-ezgo
G'me sumthin to write on
These words have not been uttered in 50 years.
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
It is like LSA on LSD
So tighter LSA (smaller number)...
1. Moves Torque to lower RPM
2. Increases Max Torque
3. Narrow Power Band
4. Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure
5. Increased Chance of Knock
6. Higher Cranking Compression
7. Increase Effective Compression
8. Reduced Idle Vacuum
9. Idle Quality Suffers
10. Valve overlap increases
11. Natural EGR Effect increases
12. Decreases Piston to Valve Clearance
Wider LSA (bigger number)
1. Moves Torque to Higher RPM
2. Reduces Max Torque
3. Broadens Powerband
4. Reduce Max Cylinder Pressure
5. Decrease chance of Engine knock
6. Decrease cranking Compression
7. Decrease effective compression
8. Increase idle vacuum
9. Idle quality improves
10. Valve overlap decreased
11. Nat EGR effect is reduced
12. Increased Piston to Valve clearance.
---------- Post added at 10:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 AM ----------
^Do we agree???
Effects of Changing Lobe Separation Ang
From http://www.compcams.com/technical/FAQ/LSAproperties.asp
---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/en...shaft-lobe-separation-angle-performance-test/
Camshaft Lobe Separation Angle Performance Test - 6 Degrees Of Separation
Does A Camshaft's Lobe Separation Angle Really Make A Performance Difference? We Hit The Dyno To Find Out.
John Nelson May 1, 2009
We could fill volumes spelling out the number of factors that affect an internal combustion engine's performance. Each component, each setting, each measurement and tolerance of every type combine to create a powerplant's performance characteristics. As we've said many times before, however, nothing defines the character of an engine more than its camshaft. Of all the measurements and specifications found in a camshaft, it's hard to underestimate the importance of the lobe separation angle, or LSA. Simply put, the LSA indicates the angle, in camshaft degrees, between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, on the intake lobe and the exhaust lobe. This figure, which is ground into the cam at the factory and cannot be changed, directly influences an engine's powerband. It's more complicated than that, of course, but the idea behind this project is straightforward. In short, we hit the dyno with our Coast High Performance 406 stroker test mule and tested three camshafts that carried identical specification-except for their lobe separation angles. How did it affect our engine's powerband? Read on to find out.
As we worked with Comp Cams engineer Billy Godbold to spec out this experiment and interpret the results, we were looking to discuss this complicated subject as simply as possible. For Godbold, this started with the term lobe separation angle. "It's doesn't mean anything except for how it affects the camshaft centerlines," he explained. "You determine the centerlines, which determines overlap, and that has performance effects." To be more specific, every cam lobe has a given number of degrees of duration, and there is a midpoint to this event. This midpoint is referred to as a centerline, and there is one for the intake and one for the exhaust. The intake centerline is used to position the cam in the engine. The exhaust lobe centerline doesn't come into play during installation or cam degreeing, but it is essential to calculating lobe separation angle. The LSA is calculated by adding the intake centerline and the exhaust centerline, then dividing by two. For example, a cam with a 106-degree intake centerline and a 114-degree exhaust centerline has a lobe separation angle of 110 degrees (106 + 114 = 220; 220 2 = 110). In fact, the cam we already had in this 406 was a standard Comp XR300HR with a 110-degree lobe separation. Our other two 'sticks were custom ground to have all the same specs as our 110-degree specimen, except that one had a 107-degree LSA and the other a 113-degree LSA
What We Did
Dyno-tested three camshafts with identical specs except for lobe separation angle.
Bottom Line
The effects are subtle, but lobe separation angle does affect an engine's powerband.
Price
Only the power you give up by choosing the wrong LSA.
Or rather, almost all the same specs. The reason that changing the LSA changes overlap is because it also changes the four valve timing points found on a cam: intake opening (IO), intake closing (IC), exhaust opening (EO) and exhaust closing (EC). "The timing points are what the engine responds to," said Godbold.
Intake closing is considered the most important point of the four, since it does the most to establish where peak torque occurs. An early IC improves low-speed torque, but limits high-rpm power since it also limits time for cylinder filling. On the other hand, a later IC allows more time for a cylinder to fill at high rpm, but limits low-end torque since cylinder pressure is pushed back through the intake port.
Intake opening (IO) plays a big part in establishing overlap (the time when both intake and exhaust valves are open). An early IO increases overlap and can lead to a sluggish engine, since the intake charge is contaminated with exhaust gasses. A later IO reduces overlap, improves idle quality, and increases low-speed torque.
Exhaust opening (EO) ranks second only to intake closing in affecting engine performance. An early EO can limit low- and midrange power by allowing torque-creating cylinder pressure to escape, but helps high-rpm performance by creating more time for exhaust gas to be expelled.
Exhaust closing (EC) also affects overlap. An early EC reduces overlap, improving idle but limiting midrange power. A late EC increases overlap, which hurts idle but helps high-rpm power.
All of these figures can be found on a cam card, and we've listed them here for you to puzzle over as you compare dyno runs. In short, this all brings us back to overlap. "You change the timing points with lobe separation," reiterates Godbold. So with that in mind, we present the simple version of what changing an engine's LSA does (see "Lobe Separation Angle Effects" sidebar).
So how did all this theory play out in our test scenario? Our methodology was straightforward: We ran each cam in our 406, making pulls with both Dart single-plane and dual-plane intakes mounted up. According to Godbold, the LSA changes did "exactly" what they should do in our application. "When you spread the LSA, you move out the two most important points (intake closing and exhaust opening). This makes the cam act bigger when it is ground on a wider lobe separation. Likewise, a narrower lobe separation moves the IC and EO points closer together, making the cam act slightly smaller.
Hence, the 107 LSA cam was better at low rpm and the 113 LSA cam was worse at low rpm. This motor liked the overlap."
Our dyno figures bear this out.
The 406 made more low-end torque with the 107 LSA cam, regardless of the intake manifold it was wearing, and held its own at higher rpm. In the same vein, the dual-plane equipped 406 had better results with the 107 LSA cam. "The dual-plane reacted to lobe separation almost exactly as it would to a smaller camshaft," said Godbold.
The 113 LSA cam, on the other hand, made less power everywhere and especially fell on its face with the single-plane intake. "I'm not totally sure if the reason is simply a result of the shorter runner length with a single-plane, or if you could trace it back to the common plenum," Godbold observed. "However, I do know for certain that single-plane manifolds have always run best with tighter lobe separation camshafts."
The 113 LSA cam may have made more power at high-rpm, but we ran into valve bounce issues with our hydraulic roller motor at 6,600 rpm, so we weren't able to find out. In most cases, though, the power given up on the lower end wouldn't have been worth the bit we gained near 7,000 rpm.
The 110 LSA cam made the most peak power-609 hp with the single-plane. Its numbers were much closer to the 107 LSA cam's figures, but the narrower LSA still put out more horsepower and torque below 6,000 rpm. It's probably not a coincidence that Comp utilizes a 107-degree LSA in its Thumpr line of cams.
Godbold thinks it would be revealing to do the same test with a much smaller set of three cams in the same application. "Then I think you would see a wider power range on the wider separation cam," he observed. "I still think 107 would give you the best peak numbers, but the wider separation cams tend to fall off less beyond peak power." With smaller cams running at a lower rpm, we'd probably be able to see that. But for now, we've got a very clear demonstration of the advantages-namely a more usable powerband-of running a narrower LSA.
---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5uaRmYivY
So tighter LSA (smaller number)...
1. Moves Torque to lower RPM
2. Increases Max Torque
3. Narrow Power Band
4. Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure
5. Increased Chance of Knock
6. Higher Cranking Compression
7. Increase Effective Compression
8. Reduced Idle Vacuum
9. Idle Quality Suffers
10. Valve overlap increases
11. Natural EGR Effect increases
12. Decreases Piston to Valve Clearance
Wider LSA (bigger number)
1. Moves Torque to Higher RPM
2. Reduces Max Torque
3. Broadens Powerband
4. Reduce Max Cylinder Pressure
5. Decrease chance of Engine knock
6. Decrease cranking Compression
7. Decrease effective compression
8. Increase idle vacuum
9. Idle quality improves
10. Valve overlap decreased
11. Nat EGR effect is reduced
12. Increased Piston to Valve clearance.
---------- Post added at 10:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 AM ----------
^Do we agree???
Effects of Changing Lobe Separation Ang
From http://www.compcams.com/technical/FAQ/LSAproperties.asp
---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/en...shaft-lobe-separation-angle-performance-test/
Camshaft Lobe Separation Angle Performance Test - 6 Degrees Of Separation
Does A Camshaft's Lobe Separation Angle Really Make A Performance Difference? We Hit The Dyno To Find Out.
John Nelson May 1, 2009
We could fill volumes spelling out the number of factors that affect an internal combustion engine's performance. Each component, each setting, each measurement and tolerance of every type combine to create a powerplant's performance characteristics. As we've said many times before, however, nothing defines the character of an engine more than its camshaft. Of all the measurements and specifications found in a camshaft, it's hard to underestimate the importance of the lobe separation angle, or LSA. Simply put, the LSA indicates the angle, in camshaft degrees, between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, on the intake lobe and the exhaust lobe. This figure, which is ground into the cam at the factory and cannot be changed, directly influences an engine's powerband. It's more complicated than that, of course, but the idea behind this project is straightforward. In short, we hit the dyno with our Coast High Performance 406 stroker test mule and tested three camshafts that carried identical specification-except for their lobe separation angles. How did it affect our engine's powerband? Read on to find out.
As we worked with Comp Cams engineer Billy Godbold to spec out this experiment and interpret the results, we were looking to discuss this complicated subject as simply as possible. For Godbold, this started with the term lobe separation angle. "It's doesn't mean anything except for how it affects the camshaft centerlines," he explained. "You determine the centerlines, which determines overlap, and that has performance effects." To be more specific, every cam lobe has a given number of degrees of duration, and there is a midpoint to this event. This midpoint is referred to as a centerline, and there is one for the intake and one for the exhaust. The intake centerline is used to position the cam in the engine. The exhaust lobe centerline doesn't come into play during installation or cam degreeing, but it is essential to calculating lobe separation angle. The LSA is calculated by adding the intake centerline and the exhaust centerline, then dividing by two. For example, a cam with a 106-degree intake centerline and a 114-degree exhaust centerline has a lobe separation angle of 110 degrees (106 + 114 = 220; 220 2 = 110). In fact, the cam we already had in this 406 was a standard Comp XR300HR with a 110-degree lobe separation. Our other two 'sticks were custom ground to have all the same specs as our 110-degree specimen, except that one had a 107-degree LSA and the other a 113-degree LSA
What We Did
Dyno-tested three camshafts with identical specs except for lobe separation angle.
Bottom Line
The effects are subtle, but lobe separation angle does affect an engine's powerband.
Price
Only the power you give up by choosing the wrong LSA.
Or rather, almost all the same specs. The reason that changing the LSA changes overlap is because it also changes the four valve timing points found on a cam: intake opening (IO), intake closing (IC), exhaust opening (EO) and exhaust closing (EC). "The timing points are what the engine responds to," said Godbold.
Intake closing is considered the most important point of the four, since it does the most to establish where peak torque occurs. An early IC improves low-speed torque, but limits high-rpm power since it also limits time for cylinder filling. On the other hand, a later IC allows more time for a cylinder to fill at high rpm, but limits low-end torque since cylinder pressure is pushed back through the intake port.
Intake opening (IO) plays a big part in establishing overlap (the time when both intake and exhaust valves are open). An early IO increases overlap and can lead to a sluggish engine, since the intake charge is contaminated with exhaust gasses. A later IO reduces overlap, improves idle quality, and increases low-speed torque.
Exhaust opening (EO) ranks second only to intake closing in affecting engine performance. An early EO can limit low- and midrange power by allowing torque-creating cylinder pressure to escape, but helps high-rpm performance by creating more time for exhaust gas to be expelled.
Exhaust closing (EC) also affects overlap. An early EC reduces overlap, improving idle but limiting midrange power. A late EC increases overlap, which hurts idle but helps high-rpm power.
All of these figures can be found on a cam card, and we've listed them here for you to puzzle over as you compare dyno runs. In short, this all brings us back to overlap. "You change the timing points with lobe separation," reiterates Godbold. So with that in mind, we present the simple version of what changing an engine's LSA does (see "Lobe Separation Angle Effects" sidebar).
So how did all this theory play out in our test scenario? Our methodology was straightforward: We ran each cam in our 406, making pulls with both Dart single-plane and dual-plane intakes mounted up. According to Godbold, the LSA changes did "exactly" what they should do in our application. "When you spread the LSA, you move out the two most important points (intake closing and exhaust opening). This makes the cam act bigger when it is ground on a wider lobe separation. Likewise, a narrower lobe separation moves the IC and EO points closer together, making the cam act slightly smaller.
Hence, the 107 LSA cam was better at low rpm and the 113 LSA cam was worse at low rpm. This motor liked the overlap."
Our dyno figures bear this out.
The 406 made more low-end torque with the 107 LSA cam, regardless of the intake manifold it was wearing, and held its own at higher rpm. In the same vein, the dual-plane equipped 406 had better results with the 107 LSA cam. "The dual-plane reacted to lobe separation almost exactly as it would to a smaller camshaft," said Godbold.
The 113 LSA cam, on the other hand, made less power everywhere and especially fell on its face with the single-plane intake. "I'm not totally sure if the reason is simply a result of the shorter runner length with a single-plane, or if you could trace it back to the common plenum," Godbold observed. "However, I do know for certain that single-plane manifolds have always run best with tighter lobe separation camshafts."
The 113 LSA cam may have made more power at high-rpm, but we ran into valve bounce issues with our hydraulic roller motor at 6,600 rpm, so we weren't able to find out. In most cases, though, the power given up on the lower end wouldn't have been worth the bit we gained near 7,000 rpm.
The 110 LSA cam made the most peak power-609 hp with the single-plane. Its numbers were much closer to the 107 LSA cam's figures, but the narrower LSA still put out more horsepower and torque below 6,000 rpm. It's probably not a coincidence that Comp utilizes a 107-degree LSA in its Thumpr line of cams.
Godbold thinks it would be revealing to do the same test with a much smaller set of three cams in the same application. "Then I think you would see a wider power range on the wider separation cam," he observed. "I still think 107 would give you the best peak numbers, but the wider separation cams tend to fall off less beyond peak power." With smaller cams running at a lower rpm, we'd probably be able to see that. But for now, we've got a very clear demonstration of the advantages-namely a more usable powerband-of running a narrower LSA.
---------- Post added at 11:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5uaRmYivY
ezcome-ezgo
G'me sumthin to write on
This is the "whole hog" or N-th degree of GAB.
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Round Two of BBQ'd Tail Pipe.
3 coats of Primer
-light coat
-wait 10 mins
-2nd light coat
-wait another 10 minutes
-Medium coat
-wait 30 minutes
3 Coats of Paint
-light coat
-wait 10 minutes
-2nd light coat
-wait another 10 minutes
-medium wet coat
-Wait 3 Hours
After softball... into the fire
-30 minutes at 250 degrees (2 on the grill)
-cool for 30 minutes
-30 minutes at 400 degrees (3 on the grill)
-cool for 30 minutes
-30 minutes at 600 degrees (All the way up)
3 coats of Primer
-light coat
-wait 10 mins
-2nd light coat
-wait another 10 minutes
-Medium coat
-wait 30 minutes
3 Coats of Paint
-light coat
-wait 10 minutes
-2nd light coat
-wait another 10 minutes
-medium wet coat
-Wait 3 Hours
After softball... into the fire
-30 minutes at 250 degrees (2 on the grill)
-cool for 30 minutes
-30 minutes at 400 degrees (3 on the grill)
-cool for 30 minutes
-30 minutes at 600 degrees (All the way up)
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
You big dummy!!! You forgot to baste it with BBQ sauce!
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
I use injections and rubs!
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
hey!!!!! Family friendly, remember?
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
I got more stuff!
Stud kit $8 Advanced Auto
(10) M8-1.25 x 56 mm Studs with Nuts
Dorman
03411
Stud kit $8 Advanced Auto
(10) M8-1.25 x 56 mm Studs with Nuts
Dorman
03411
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Jrgunn5150
Rudderless
- Messages
- 1,028
- Reaction score
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I sprayed two coats hanging from the rafter in my dirty garage and ran it lol.
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
My Thrice Cooked Tail Pipe recipe is kinda like Poboy's Tire Experiment.
Have to watch the temp on the Grill closely for like 3 hrs. Last time I fell asleep without an alarm. Plus I dropped the exhaust during the painting process. It was terrible. Chips! Talking cops on motorcycle Chips!
I'll do better this time.
Have to watch the temp on the Grill closely for like 3 hrs. Last time I fell asleep without an alarm. Plus I dropped the exhaust during the painting process. It was terrible. Chips! Talking cops on motorcycle Chips!
I'll do better this time.
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
I tried those....they didn't work!!!! The women weren't impressed!
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Where the heck is the flippin' fake go pro?!!!??
---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
Did you wear them like the stickers?
I'll report on what the instructions say. Lol
---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------
BTW, those are for the side cover.
---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
Did you wear them like the stickers?
I'll report on what the instructions say. Lol
---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------
BTW, those are for the side cover.
bob58o
SuckSqueezeBangBlow
Also hanging in the garage..
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