2 stroke conversion

Jhoppe

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Strictly for educational reasons, has anyone converted a predator to 2 stroke? I am sure there are some 2 stroke Briggs conversions out there. "Just because I can" cases. Would there be any major advantages to such a setup? Or would it just be a conversation starter?

Again, I have no intention of doing so. I lack the know how and the tooling to handle such a task. Just a shower thought. Lol
 

Karts of Kaos

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I have not but I have been wondering for a long for time. could you just welded two more lobes on the bottom of the cam
 

JTSpeedDemon

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Unless you can precision grind the lobes, and harden them, not really. It might work, but it would most likely run rough and wear down quickly.
 

Jhoppe

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A 2 stroke doesn't use valves though. It uses crankcase pressure and a hole in the cylinder wall. The piston acts as both valves. There is no camshaft
 

JTSpeedDemon

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A Detroit diesel has 2 exhaust valves......

And besides, if it makes power on every piston down stroke, it's a 2 stroke, regardless of the design. I'm just spitballin' ideas on how to make it a 2 stroke.
 

Jhoppe

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Fair point. I am not into 2 strokes so I'm learning. From what I can tell the Briggs would be way easier to convert, though it would not be a simple task either
 

JTSpeedDemon

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I've heard that in the old SAE fuel economy competitions, they would take a 2 HP Briggs flathead, and convert it to OHV to allow for higher compression ratios, hemi heads and the likes.

I dunno though, on which would be easier to convert to 2 stroke.
 

jmaack

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if you watch video you will see where he took and machined channels in to the cylinder walls negating the need for a cam.
also biggest issue with predator is the cylinder and block are one piece. He used the head from an old 2 stroke which I have a feeling is where you would run in to a problem with the predator u less you are very good with g code

Also a detroit diesel is a totally different animal then a 2 stroke weed eater bike etc.
4 valves per cylinder also.

---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

I really want to see someone do it just to say they did.
 

Jhoppe

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I would love to do it just to say I could, but my point is, I lack the proper tooling to handle it.

I think a briggs would be easier because you MIGHT be able to use the valve door on the side as an access to machine the recesses need for the fuel delivery, then just plug the valve guides up. I'm not sure if that would be where the intake port would need to be. Just a thought.

EDIT: another big obstacle is that I cannot weld aluminium. Doesn't make the job impossible, just harder
 

Jhoppe

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I still have the 5hp flathead you gave me with the minibike. That would be a good start I think. I haven't even looked at it yet lol
 

anickode

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:Oh, just go find a cheap Toro single stage snowblower with worn out paddles. Yoink the 2 stroke engine and call it a day. :thumbsup:
 

itsid

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Sorry.. but interesting and viable are on different pages if I read your posts above ;)
I count one with an understanding and the rest looks like the blind talking about colours ...

Don't get me wrong.. it's perfectly alright to not know,
two strokes are not "simpler" than four strokes.. and a good conversion requires a lot of effort and ingenuity (and engineering)
a diesel two stroke for example is a totally different bred than a gasoline two stroke.
and it doesn't matter if you want reed, piston port or rotary valves..
you want a crank case intake of sorts.. and a crankcase to combustion chamber passthrough,
you also need an exhaust port (and no using the valves is not going to help much)

So, new cylinder, new piston, new crankcase..
you also need a new carb and of course (very important actually) a new exhaust.

Sorry.. but that leaves you with the crank and con rod perhaps...
the case of a industrial four stroke is unlikely to be convertible correctly,
unless you can cut and weld to it as well as internally machine what needs to be machined.
weeks of calculations in order to get the ratios and heights right,
size and dimensions of the ports and exhausts and another week to just dial in the carb.

'sid
 

Jhoppe

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I am aware that it would be difficult. I also know that I dont have the machines or tooling needed. I was just curious if it was possible with the engines that we use. I mean a 200(ish)cc 2-stroke would be pretty mean on a kart or minibike. You have to say it would definitely be beyond cool. I am also very curious about the capabilities and limitations of such an engine. Not to mention how long the thing would stay together.
 

itsid

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well sure a professinally made 200cc two stroke is quite a nasty bit of machine.
(current race engines in the 250cc class hit and surpass the 100hp line)
BUT those are perfectly timed, and absurdely precise

First.. I'd say what you would want is a dead engine to start with.
(yes.. ideally one where the conrod punched a hole under the cylinder)
or one that seized close to BDC.. I know it's just a predator, nothing special..

but since this is almost as likely to not work at all as it is to maybe at least turn over under it's own spark once or twice...
both of which more likely than a nicely ticking two stroke...
you may want to pick a dead engine to begin with.

if you have a hole in the crankcase already.. the proper idea would be a reed valve engine..
frankly that's likely the easiest option anyways and it gives you the highest chance of succeeding in regards of finding a horse power or two in the engine.

then you need to rip everything out of the insides.. and make the crankcase as small as possible internally.
Essentially weld in an airtight barrier that just allows the conrod to rotate
and free the reed valve of course.
with the reed valve in place we now have the first stage of intake solved.

the second intake stage (crankcase to combustion chamber) is way more difficult.
but since we do no longer need the push rods, their pathways at least give us enough beef to
machine
And yes that does mean you will need to machine a precise cutout from inside the cylinder bore.
Exact size and shape yet undetermined.

And on the other side you need to cut a similar hole into the cylinder wall this time for the exhaust.
(exact size and location yet to be determined)

you also would want to cut some and weld some to the piston
(to make a better transistion port)
And you want a better head.. as little volume as possible
but for now with the valves deactivated (lack of cam and pushrods) it should do

And that's the easy parts done.
In theory you can take a known to work timing chart for similar stroke length two stroke
and start dialing in the timing from there.
bad news since longer resp. earlier means more cutting on the cylinder wall..
there is no easy going back!
dialing that in is iterative and takes lots and lots of trials.

once exhaust opens too early, or transition for too long,
you throw the case in the bin and start over again.
on minor cuts weld shut, resleeve and start over
(one of the reasons two strokes like their cylinders separated from the block;))

after fiddling with the ignition timing and dialing in port sizes (for a quick and smooth transition)
you can have a running two stroke.
I doubt it has much power as of now, but if it stays running you did a great job so far.

And then it's custom fabbing an expansion chamber..
template designers for that are available.. bore stroke timing entered and
it gives you the dimensions the expantion chamber needs to be.

Oh you need a billet con rod and flywheel.
just because the rpms will have to increase a bit likely past 6k in order to generate oomph.

I reckon we talk about 700-900 dollars more if you get a custom made head.
(200-300 in parts and the rest in tools and machine time without the custom head)

finding some old 200cc two stroke on CL is much cheaper IYAM.. and bonus:
it usually comes with a gearbox and runs way better than the home made one ;)

'sid
 

Karts of Kaos

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do you think i could do it for like 200-300 $? seeing as I alredy have the tools and an engine. and then I could put it on the 50 $ gokart. you guys did say to put a predator on it:roflol:
 

anickode

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do you think i could do it for like 200-300 $? seeing as I alredy have the tools and an engine. and then I could put it on the 50 $ gokart. you guys did say to put a predator on it:roflol:

If you have tools and materials and can't say how much it might cost, you lack the knowledge.

As it has been said time after time, you are not converting an engine to 2 stroke. You are essentially building an engine from scratch and recycling a few parts that will probably end up failing anyway.

So, if you're **** bent on doing it, go for it. And order some books. Engine mechanics, machining, etc. READ, STUDY, LEARN. You will not get step by step detailed instructions from here.
 
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