GoKart Senior Project Advice

[Master Hack]

makes dirty, ugly welds

Hey! Leave me outta this!

 

[kitzimoose]

gasless welding is NOT THE WAY to weld any type of tubing. Learning how to weld with flux core wire is to be done on solid steel SCRAP metal, not a frame that you intend to keep.

I saw that fact the other day, but I forgot to add my two cents worth of learning from my failures.
Flux core wire is hot, burns holes, does not fill those holes well, and it makes dirty, ugly welds.

honestly i dont care how it looks but gas welding seems expensive and as I'm in highschool there's a subzero shot my parents would let me do gas welding. I was planning on getting a bunch of scrap steel to learn and do a little bit of practice

 

[kitzimoose]

^^^^AMEN^^^^
Honestly, it might make sense to find a used frame and go from there.
Building a kart on any kind of a time crunch is very, and I mean VERY expensive.
If you have time to let it sit while you accumulate used parts, then the price goes down, but the time goes up.

Thats what my original plan was but the friend I'm doing this with really wants to design and weld our own frame and i think it would be cool to do as well as we could make it fit us perfectly as we are both 6'+

 

[Master Hack]

honestly i dont care how it looks but gas welding seems expensive

When yer talking about building a machine to transport humans at breakneck speeds over uneven terain, Welding becomes a safety issue, not just cosmetic.
Sadly the dirty, ugly welds mentioned above do not offer the strength of a proper weld.
l would recommend you become fairly proficent at welding before attempting a project that could potentially inflict serious injury.

 

[Denny]

If done properly there is nothing wrong with flux core welding.

 

[Functional Artist]

Food for Thought

Check out this build thread for Excalibur
...a scratch-built kart, I designed & build a few years ago
https://www.diygokarts.com/community/threads/2020-excalibur-electric-racing-kart.43462/
&
Here's a video, of it in action

 

[Denny]

The left motor was pulling more weight.

 

[bullseye670]

Hey Kitzimoose, I don't think you understand the part about welding with gas instead of flux core. They are talking about mig welding with argon gas. It is an inert gas. Non explosive. It just creats a better environment for the weld. You can weld with flux core (no gas) or with argon gas (regular wire feed). Normally the same welding machine can be used for either. Mig welder.

 

[Jacka$$withawrench]

^^^^AMEN^^^^
Honestly, it might make sense to find a used frame and go from there.
Building a kart on any kind of a time crunch is very, and I mean VERY expensive.
If you have time to let it sit while you accumulate used parts, then the price goes down, but the time goes up.

The great triangle of Cost, Effort, and speed.

 

[Jacka$$withawrench]

Thats what my original plan was but the friend I'm doing this with really wants to design and weld our own frame and i think it would be cool to do as well as we could make it fit us perfectly as we are both 6'+

Stretch an already existing frame. There are several accounts of taking cheap chinese quads and stretching the frames to accomadate a seat.

 

[Jacka$$withawrench]

Hey Kitzimoose, I don't think you understand the part about welding with gas instead of flux core. They are talking about mig welding with argon gas. It is an inert gas. Non explosive. It just creats a better environment for the weld. You can weld with flux core (no gas) or with argon gas (regular wire feed). Normally the same welding machine can be used for either. Mig welder.

Sparkwizard is making the point that Fluxcore forms ugly, weak welds. IF its all you have, then sure, or if you HAVE to build a frame to make this count for your senior project, then fine. But you're setting up for all kinds of issues (frame bending/snapping, axle bearings not aligning, mounts n' **** moving around after, the list goes on). If you buy a used frame, even a cheap used rusted one from ebay or facebook, you avoid all of that. Your steering mounts are set, your mounting holes are set. Even if you have to stretch it, you still have a baseline to work with.

 

[Sparkwizard]

My comments about flux core welding were really meant as a warning about trying to learn how to weld, using flux core wire on thin steel tubing.
I use flux wire alot on thicker steel, like farm machines and truck frames. It works great on stuff like that, but for thin tubing, running solid wire, (no flux) and a shielding gas such as argon or CO2, will give a much stronger and more controllable weld. If you burn a hole, and we all do, you can simply fill the hole and keep on going with a MIG running solid wire and shielding gas.
With flux core welding, there is a covering of slag on the weld. That needs to be knocked off and cleaned up before going back and filling the holes.
It also needs to be cleaned off before painting your project.

 

[Edwin Spangler]

If I have to use my flux core on something thin like exhaust, I use the gun sorta like I would 7018 rods. Bunch of little spots, one after the other.

 

[kitzimoose]

My comments about flux core welding were really meant as a warning about trying to learn how to weld, using flux core wire on thin steel tubing.
I use flux wire alot on thicker steel, like farm machines and truck frames. It works great on stuff like that, but for thin tubing, running solid wire, (no flux) and a shielding gas such as argon or CO2, will give a much stronger and more controllable weld. If you burn a hole, and we all do, you can simply fill the hole and keep on going with a MIG running solid wire and shielding gas.
With flux core welding, there is a covering of slag on the weld. That needs to be knocked off and cleaned up before going back and filling the holes.
It also needs to be cleaned off before painting your project.

ok thanks ill deffo look into gas welding and try and push to allow us to gas weld but ill have to see.

 

[kitzimoose]

Sparkwizard is making the point that Fluxcore forms ugly, weak welds. IF its all you have, then sure, or if you HAVE to build a frame to make this count for your senior project, then fine. But you're setting up for all kinds of issues (frame bending/snapping, axle bearings not aligning, mounts n' **** moving around after, the list goes on). If you buy a used frame, even a cheap used rusted one from ebay or facebook, you avoid all of that. Your steering mounts are set, your mounting holes are set. Even if you have to stretch it, you still have a baseline to work with.

ill deffo continue to look for a frame and maybe modify it lightly or I do have a cousin who only lives 1.5 hours away who is a professional welder that I could see if he is interested in helping so we could at least have the aspect of designing the frame as he actually knows how to weld as its his job

 

[Sparkwizard]

I use CO2 as the shielding gas on my MIG welder.
CO2 is not flammable. In fact, fire extinguishers use CO2.

 

[kitzimoose]

Hey Kitzimoose, I don't think you understand the part about welding with gas instead of flux core. They are talking about mig welding with argon gas. It is an inert gas. Non explosive. It just creats a better environment for the weld. You can weld with flux core (no gas) or with argon gas (regular wire feed). Normally the same welding machine can be used for either. Mig welder.

thanks im going to look into argon gas welding now but how much on average does the gas cost? and where would one find argon gas?

 

[kitzimoose]

When yer talking about building a machine to transport humans at breakneck speeds over uneven terain, Welding becomes a safety issue, not just cosmetic.
Sadly the dirty, ugly welds mentioned above do not offer the strength of a proper weld.
l would recommend you become fairly proficent at welding before attempting a project that could potentially inflict serious injury.

I do have a cousin who only lives 1.5 hours away who is a professional welder that I could see if he is interested in helping so we could at least have the aspect of designing the frame as he actually knows how to weld as its his job and he has proper equipment so that also reduces cost as then we don't have to buy welding equipment as it might be cheaper to just pay him for his time

 

[Sparkwizard]

CO2 is about half the cost of argon. If you are only welding mild steel, CO2 will work. Welding stainless steel or aluminum would require argon, but with a simple MIG welder, a small 20 pound tank of CO2 would be fine. The tank can be purchased for about $125 here locally, and about 30 bucks to fill it.

 

[Master Hack]

CO2 is about half the cost of argon. If you are only welding mild steel, CO2 will work.

That is a great tip. I have been using CO2 for years, cuz of my inner cheapskate.