Problem with after market driven pulley on trail master

[bob58o]

Which spectrum? Not my spectrum. Don’t use that as an excuse. Every old dude with a toy train set has been on the spectrum since before there was a spectrum.

 

[Denny]

I still have my slot cars does that count?

 

[bob58o]

I still have my slot cars does that count?

Only if you keep the stamp collection next to the track.

 

[Denny]

That got thrown away years ago.

 

[bob58o]

I have to keep my beam of focus narrow and understand how individual parts work before broadening the focus to big picture. If I focus on big picture first, I might lean towards schizoaffective

 

[Ryanhodge2715]

Hmm I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Just seems like if it's connected to the the cam it seems like I would be firing same time no matter the rpm. Unless it begins to out run the explosion itself??

 

[Ryanhodge2715]

Appreciate yall patience an willingness to help me understand this stuff. What do yall get out of all this? Just enjoy helping others? Tearing them a new one? Make you feel smart? What keeps ya going with what to yall is senseless questions?

 

[BaconBitRacing]

They are crazy and bored! And yes, there is a thrill when someone gets something fixed, especially using your advice.

 

[bob58o]

The magnet on the outside of the flywheel passes the ignition coil and creates spark. It is the flywheel’s “rotational” orientation to the crankshaft that determines the relationship of the timing of the spark to the movement and position of the piston.

It is the camshaft and and its rotational orientation to the crank shaft that determines when the valves open and close in relationship to the movement and position of the piston.

Ignition timing can be set independently of camshaft / valve timing.

 

[ezcome-ezgo]

There is no senseless question. If someone is new to karts, we try to help. If someone is new to common sense, we make fun of them. The first person I ridicule is me.

 

[bob58o]

Appreciate yall patience an willingness to help me understand this stuff. What do yall get out of all this? Just enjoy helping others? Tearing them a new one? Make you feel smart? What keeps ya going with what to yall is senseless questions?

Do you really know about stuff if you can’t explain it to somebody else? Im here to learn and share and avoid my own problems.

 

[bob58o]

If you used a straight key… then it’s like the cam, crank, and flywheel are all “locked in”.
If you don’t use a key, or use an offset key… you are able to rotate the flywheel (and magnet) about the crankshaft without moving the crank or cam.

The nut and taper of the shaft holds the flywheel in place and keeps it from spinning. The key really just keeps the flywheel from spinning about the crank while torquing down the nut.

 

[bob58o]

The position of the magnet on the flywheel in relation to the key slot on the flywheel determines the “ignition timing preset” of that flywheel.

Stock flywheels are set so the position of the key slot and the position of the magnet create spark when the piston is about 24 degrees before top dead center. Is is ideal for stock camshafts. Tuning involves playing around with spark timing to give the best performance for your cam.

An aftermarket flywheel has slightly different relative “rotational” positioning of the key slot and magnet. It might be a 32 degree flywheel (meaning it sparks at 32 degrees before top dead center). Now if you install this flywheel with straight key, you have advanced the spark timing. But you still have the stock camshaft so you did not change the valve timing.

A stock cam doesn’t work best with advanced ignition timing.

A racing cam doesn’t work best with retarded (stock) ignition timing.

 

[Ryanhodge2715]

Ahh so my problem is the fact that fw does have advanced timing that I don't need without beefing the rest up. So instead of increasing I need to decrease it to the stock 24 degree.
So what is it about the racing cam that calls for advanced timing? I thought it just had larger lift on the valves. An if my timing is to much why does it run like a dime for about mile or 5 min then give me issues an not right away? I just can't make since of why the piston needs to be further down befor spark with a racing cam. Seems like I said no matter the rpm the spark should ignite in the same piston location. Does the further the degree allow more gas in the chamber to allow for bigger bang thus higher rpm maybe??

 

[Ryanhodge2715]

The magnet on the outside of the flywheel passes the ignition coil and creates spark. It is the flywheel’s “rotational” orientation to the crankshaft that determines the relationship of the timing of the spark to the movement and position of the piston.

It is the camshaft and and its rotational orientation to the crank shaft that determines when the valves open and close in relationship to the movement and position of the piston.

Ignition timing can be set independently of camshaft / valve timing.

I understand that freely spinning the fw on the shaft changes spark timing. Just not getting why you would need to. What is it that the cam does? Just opens an closes intake an exhaust valve right?

 

[Ryanhodge2715]

Also is there any rigging of any sort that yall may know of to wing a degree wheel? Autzone talking some 50 bucks for it an ima only use it one time....

 

[bob58o]

Download and print for free…
Glue to cardboard. Wire or wire hanger and a bolt to make a pointer that connects to block and points to a line on the degree wheel

I understand that freely spinning the fw on the shaft changes spark timing. Just not getting why you would need to. What is it that the cam does? Just opens an closes intake an exhaust valve right?

Yes the cam opens and closes the valves. That’s all it does.

The crankshaft moves the piston.

Crank shaft is synced to camshaft with gears. So as one turns, so does the other. By aligning the timing marks on both gears… you are setting valve timing to piston position. If you were to misaligned the gears by a tooth… you are changing the relationship of valve timing and piston position. Depending on which direction the gear was misaligned, the valve openings and closings now happen earlier or later (compared to piston position)

 

[Ryanhodge2715]

Awesome another seemingly obvious idea I wouldn't have thought about lol. Thanks again. But ok I have yet to bust the motor open an take a look myself that makes more since
But even with upgraded cam does it actually change the time when the valves open thus needing to change spark time to match it? From what I get out of it just gives valves a bigger lift not longer lift or different timing on the valve lift right? I see it's clearly necessary to adjust timing I just want to understand what is the need for it when upgrading your cam. An how is the cam producing higher rpm if all it does is lift valves higher. Is it like my thought on the first comment higher lift equals more gas equals bigger bang that gives higher rpm?

 

[bob58o]

Awesome another seemingly obvious idea I wouldn't have thought about lol. Thanks again. But ok I have yet to bust the motor open an take a look myself that makes more since
But even with upgraded cam does it actually change the time when the valves open thus needing to change spark time to match it? From what I get out of it just gives valves a bigger lift not longer lift or different timing on the valve lift right? I see it's clearly necessary to adjust timing I just want to understand what is the need for it when upgrading your cam. An how is the cam producing higher rpm if all it does is lift valves higher. Is it like my thought on the first comment higher lift equals more gas equals bigger bang that gives higher rpm?

Camshaft is the brain. It controls when the valves open and close. How high the valves lift off the valve seat. How long they stay open. The rate at which they open (a square lobe goes from closed to open really fast, or a lazy ramp opens it slowly).

For example… one important camshaft “event time” specifications is “Intake Valve Closing”

Each camshaft will have different “Event Times”

For example imagine the intake valve is open as the piston moves down during the intake stroke. Fuel and air fill the cylinder through the valve. Now imagine the the intake valve closes as soon as the piston reaches the bottom, before (or as) it changes direction and starts upward for the compression stroke. This valved closed at bottom dead center.

Now imagine the valves stays open a little longer and closes after bottom dead center. The piston has started upward before the valve closed.

These represent two different camshaft that are designed for different rpm.

Each target rpm will have a corresponding “ignition timing” so the spark plug fires at the correct time when the fuel and air have been compressed and the connecting rod is at the correct angle to accept the power from the burn and use it to turn the crankshaft.

 

[Ryanhodge2715]

You the man ima leave you in peace for a bit. So even if my timing us off. It running great for the first 5 min an then falling off sounds like the problems from bad timing?