Predator 212 wont fully start

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LtDansNewLegs

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Actually I do have the cam still. You can’t even see the exhaust lobe in the first pic and the second shows the little lift left
 

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BrownStainRacing

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LtDansNewLegs said:
Actually I do have the cam still. You can’t even see the exhaust lobe in the first pic and the second shows the little lift left
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I have never seen 1 that worn without figuring out something went wrong early. That's crazy. I'd say it started during the break in period.

I hope you checked the push rods, rockers and replaced the lifters.

What cam did you go with???
 
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LtDansNewLegs

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No idea. The engine came on the kart I bought and this all happened before I ever even opened it up. Probably a reason why they were selling it.
I ended up just buying a whole new engine to have a fresh start and force myself to learn about it with taking it apart and installing all new stage 2 stuff. Thank god predators aren’t crazy expensive
 
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LtDansNewLegs said:
No idea. The engine came on the kart I bought and this all happened before I ever even opened it up. Probably a reason why they were selling it.
I ended up just buying a whole new engine to have a fresh start and force myself to learn about it with taking it apart and installing all new stage 2 stuff. Thank god predators aren’t crazy expensive
Click to expand...
Yeah everybody likes 'em cuz them are cheap. I got mine on sale for $100!
 
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BrownStainRacing

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LtDansNewLegs said:
No idea. The engine came on the kart I bought and this all happened before I ever even opened it up. Probably a reason why they were selling it.
I ended up just buying a whole new engine to have a fresh start and force myself to learn about it with taking it apart and installing all new stage 2 stuff. Thank god predators aren’t crazy expensive
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Very good idea. 👍
Run the new one.
Learn how to build the old 1. These are so simple lil engines. Ask questions, learn clearances, specs, gather up measuring tools.

I don't recommend throwing useless parts at it jus yet.

Get measurements, is the bore square and staight, piston to cylinder clearances, ring end gaps, rod to crank, crank and cam end play. Learn how to measure compression ratio.

These will make a bigger difference then some stupid air filter and over sized lazy camshaft.
 
BaconBitRacing

BaconBitRacing

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LtDansNewLegs said:
No idea. The engine came on the kart I bought and this all happened before I ever even opened it up. Probably a reason why they were selling it.
I ended up just buying a whole new engine to have a fresh start and force myself to learn about it with taking it apart and installing all new stage 2 stuff. Thank god predators aren’t crazy expensive
Click to expand...
Hey Ltdan, did you get a Hemi or a flattop? I got a Hemi, we can learn together from @BrownStainRacing, the 'turd' motor expert.
 
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LtDansNewLegs

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I have a question for you veterans - and thank you all for your help thus far.

After I set my 22lb valve spring lash to .003, and then rotate the cylinder once and back to TDC, they are very tight and have no clearance. When I rotate them one more turn to TDC, they go back to .003. So basically, I get the same reading after 720 degrees or every 2 turns, but am not getting the same reading with only one turn. Two questions:

1. Is this normal?

2. If it is normal, should I be setting my .003 lash at the tighter or looser TDC?

Let me know if I didn’t do a good job of explaining what I’m trying to get at.
 
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BrownStainRacing

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Here's how I adjust the valves on these turd motors.

Pull sparkplug and blower housing off so you can turn flywheel by hand.

Turn flywheel clockwise while watching intake rocker. When intake valve has completely closed, watch exhaust rocker, it will start to open the exhaust valve a lil bit then close it. This is the compression release on the exhaust lobe doing its job.

Look down at the crankshaft, pto side, you will see the keyway is lined up with the center of the cylinder, if not move flywheel til it is. This makes sure you are off the compression release. And makes it easier to pull start.

Set you valve lash to .003" on intake and exhaust.

Turn the flywheel cw 4 or 5 times and check the valve lash again, using the same procedure.

Good luck

I hope you have a minimum of 10.3:1 compression ratio for that dyno super stock cam, 11:1 is the sweet spot in a 212.
It loves big CR, big carbs, big exhaust, port work done to the heads, and 5500-7000 rpm range. If you don't have these, you are no where near the potential of this cam, you have OVERCAMED your 212.
 
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LtDansNewLegs

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BaconBitRacing said:
Hey Ltdan, did you get a Hemi or a flattop? I got a Hemi, we can learn together from @BrownStainRacing, the 'turd' motor expert.
Click to expand...
I went with a non-Hemi since the old engine had a non-Hemi PVL Flywheel.

I finally took out the new engine yesterday for the first time and I’m addicted to the exhaust rumble! Topped out at 39 MPH, which was so freaking fun and rewarding for the countless hours I’ve put in the garage. On the other hand, I think a 39 MPH top speed is low compared to what I’ve seen on YouTube for Stage 2, even with my 220lb ***. Plus, that means my engine is only running at 5600 RPM with calculating the 5:1 ratio, 11.5” tires, and reverse engineering the 39mph, which also seems low for stage 2.

I hate that I had to do it, but I took the engine off the kart this morning to check clearances like turd McGee recommended, since I know it should be reaching higher speeds. Pray for me gentlemen.
 
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BrownStainRacing

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At that rpm, I surely hope you are running a billet rod and are venting the crankcase correctly. If not, that stock rod will vent the crankcase for you.

I've seen more stock rod preds with busted blocks then I have clone 196cc with stock rods. Idk what it is about the pred stock rod, it jus can't handle high rpm. Even the "Box Stock" racers won't turn em passed 5300 rpm.
LtDansNewLegs said:
I went with a non-Hemi since the old engine had a non-Hemi PVL Flywheel.

I finally took out the new engine yesterday for the first time and I’m addicted to the exhaust rumble! Topped out at 39 MPH, which was so freaking fun and rewarding for the countless hours I’ve put in the garage. On the other hand, I think a 39 MPH top speed is low compared to what I’ve seen on YouTube for Stage 2, even with my 220lb ***. Plus, that means my engine is only running at 5600 RPM with calculating the 5:1 ratio, 11.5” tires, and reverse engineering the 39mph, which also seems low for stage 2.

I hate that I had to do it, but I took the engine off the kart this morning to check clearances like turd McGee recommended, since I know it should be reaching higher speeds. Pray for me gentlemen.
Click to expand...
 
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LtDansNewLegs

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BrownStainRacing said:
At that rpm, I surely hope you are running a billet rod and are venting the crankcase correctly. If not, that stock rod will vent the crankcase for you.

I've seen more stock rod preds with busted blocks then I have clone 196cc with stock rods. Idk what it is about the pred stock rod, it jus can't handle high rpm. Even the "Box Stock" racers won't turn em passed 5300 rpm.
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I have a ARC +.020 Rod, but how the heck do you vent the crankcase?
 
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BrownStainRacing

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LtDansNewLegs said:
I have a ARC +.020 Rod, but how the heck do you vent the crankcase?
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Very nice!!!!!!

I use 1 way check valves. That stock valve/baffle in the valve cover , can't keep up with the pressure at higher rpm (4k +) so it hangs open and draws in more air when the piston is going back to the top of the cylinder. This causes really high pressures under the piston, slowing the rpm down, engine jus can not rev any higher.

If you don't have any 1 way check valves yet, DO NOT REMOVE THE STOCK VALVE IN THE VALVE COVER, it will cause more pressure.

Check ebay or Amazon for 1 way check valves. I like to use the 1/2" ones. If you can't find em I'll lokkem up for you.

How thick is your head gasket you are using???
 
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LtDansNewLegs

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Ah, gotcha. I’m very familiar with catch cans. Had an IAG on my WRX before I sold it
BrownStainRacing said:
Very nice!!!!!!

I use 1 way check valves. That stock valve/baffle in the valve cover , can't keep up with the pressure at higher rpm (4k +) so it hangs open and draws in more air when the piston is going back to the top of the cylinder. This causes really high pressures under the piston, slowing the rpm down, engine jus can not rev any higher.

If you don't have any 1 way check valves yet, DO NOT REMOVE THE STOCK VALVE IN THE VALVE COVER, it will cause more pressure.

Check ebay or Amazon for 1 way check valves. I like to use the 1/2" ones. If you can't find em I'll lokkem up for you.

How thick is your head gasket you are using???
Click to expand...
Head gasket is +.010. I still have the vent tube coming from the valve cover. Since I took the vm22 from the old engine and put it on the new one, I took the new OEM air filter, cut a little piece out, and stuck that in the end of the valve breather. Did the same with the gas tank breather too. I will def buy a 1 way valve on eBay. Thank you!
At this point, I feel like you’re my small engine consultant! Minus the pay. Feels more like Lt Dans new legs actually.
 
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