'wittle 'wesistor (Mini Jeep)

Functional Artist

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For my next creation, I've been thinking about building a go kart sized jeep (mini-Jeep)
...but first, here is some Jeep info.

"The Jeep marque has been headquartered in Toledo, Ohio, ever since Willys–Overland launched production of the first CJ or Civilian Jeep branded models there in 1945. Its replacement, the conceptually consistent Jeep Wrangler series, remains in production since 1986. With its solid axles and open top, the Wrangler is the Jeep model that is central to the brand's identity.

At least two Jeep models (the CJ-5 and the SJ Wagoneer) enjoyed extraordinary three-decade production runs of a single body generation.

In lowercase, the term "jeep" continues to be used as a generic term for vehicles inspired by the Jeep that are suitable for use on rough terrain. In Iceland, the word Jeppi (derived from Jeep) has been used since WWII and is still used for any type of SUV.

Prior to 1940 the term "jeep" had been used as U.S. Army slang for new recruits or vehicles, but the World War II "jeep" that went into production in 1941 specifically tied the name to this light military 4x4, arguably making them the oldest four-wheel drive mass-production vehicles now known as SUVs. The Jeep became the primary light 4-wheel-drive vehicle of the United States Armed Forces and the Allies during World War II, as well as the postwar period. The term became common worldwide in the wake of the war. Doug Stewart noted: "The spartan, cramped, and unstintingly functional jeep became the ubiquitous World War II four-wheeled personification of Yankee ingenuity and cocky, can-do determination." It is the precursor of subsequent generations of military light utility vehicles such as the Humvee, and inspired the creation of civilian analogs such as the original Series I Land Rover. Many Jeep variants serving similar military and civilian roles have since been designed in other nations.

Development – 1. Bantam Reconnaissance Car

When it became clear that the United States would be involved in the European theater of World War II, the Army contacted 135 companies to create working prototypes of a four-wheel drive reconnaissance car. Only two companies responded: American Bantam Car Company and Willys-Overland. The Army set a seemingly impossible deadline of 49 days to supply a working prototype. Willys asked for more time, but was refused. American Bantam had only a small staff with nobody to draft the vehicle plans, so chief engineer Harold Crist hired Karl Probst, a talented freelance designer from Detroit. After turning down Bantam's initial request, Probst responded to an Army request and began work on July 17, 1940, initially without salary.

Probst drafted the full plans in just two days for the Bantam prototype known as the BRC or Bantam Reconnaissance Car, working up a cost estimate the next day. Bantam's bid was submitted on July 22, complete with blueprints. Much of the vehicle could be assembled from off-the-shelf automotive parts, and custom four-wheel drivetrain components were to be supplied by Spicer. The hand-built prototype was completed in Butler, Pennsylvania and driven to Camp Holabird, Maryland on September 23 for Army testing. The vehicle met all the Army's criteria except engine torque.

Development – 2. Willys and Ford


The Army thought that the Bantam company lacked the production capacity to manufacture and deliver the required number of vehicles, so it supplied the Bantam design to Willys and Ford, and encouraged them to enhance the design. The resulting Ford "Pygmy" and Willys "Quad" prototypes looked very similar to the Bantam BRC prototype, and Spicer supplied very similar four-wheel drivetrain components to all three manufacturers.

1,500 of each model (Bantam BRC-40, Ford GP, and Willys MA) were built and extensively field-tested. After the weight specification was revised, Willys-Overland's chief engineer Delmar "Barney" Roos modified the design in order to use Willys's heavy but powerful "Go Devil" engine, and won the initial production contract. The Willys version became the standard jeep design, designated the model MB, and was built at their plant in Toledo, Ohio. The familiar pressed-metal Jeep grille was a Ford design feature and incorporated in the final design by the Army.

Because the US War Department required a large number of vehicles in a short time, Willys-Overland granted the US Government a non-exclusive license to allow another company to manufacture vehicles using Willys' specifications. The Army chose Ford as a second supplier, building Jeeps to the Willys' design. Willys supplied Ford with a complete set of plans and specifications. American Bantam, the creators of the first Jeep, built approximately 2,700 of them to the BRC-40 design, but spent the rest of the war building heavy-duty trailers for the Army.

Final production version jeeps built by Willys-Overland were the Model MB, while those built by Ford were the Model GPW (G = government vehicle, P = 80" wheelbase, W = Willys engine design). There were subtle differences between the two. The versions produced by Ford had every component (including bolt heads) marked with an "F", and early on Ford also stamped their name in large letters in their trademark script, embossed in the rear panel of their jeeps. Willys followed the Ford pattern by stamping 'Willys' into several body parts, but the U.S. government objected to this practice, and both parties stopped this in 1942.

The cost per vehicle trended upwards as the war continued from the price under the first contract from Willys at US$648.74 (Ford's was $782.59 per unit).[27] Willys-Overland and Ford, under the direction of Charles E. Sorensen (vice-president of Ford during World War II), produced about 640,000 Jeeps.

Jeeps were used by every service of the U.S. military. An average of 145 were supplied to every Army infantry regiment. Jeeps were used for many purposes, including cable laying, Sawmilling, as firefighting pumpers, field ambulances, tractors, and, with suitable wheels, would run on railway tracks."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep

So, I've been lookin' at this:

SAM_6111.JPGSo, Ima thinkin' probably ~1/2 size, (~0.5), ~50% or ~2:1 reduction

Maybe something like this ;)
SAM_6099.JPG
 

Functional Artist

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Speak to someone at Mahindra.
I tried
...but, so far all I got was "please hold"
...do ta do ta do ta do ta do ta dooo (continually repeats, over & over & over) :huh:

So, while were waiting :innocent:

FWIU the US military started using mechanized vehicles toward the end of WWI
...but, what was available, at the time, was inadequate for many "war type" situations
...& what "was available" was only available in small numbers

What they ended up with was a bunch of different vehicles
...from different manufacturers
...that all required different parts
...& then, the mechanics (or soldiers, out in the field) had to learn/figure out how to fix all of these different vehicles. :mad2:

Going into WW2 the military wanted (1) "simple" vehicle, that was more capable to use, where there weren't any roads
...would be easier to "stock" parts
...& (1) common vehicle for the soldiers to learn how to fix :thumbsup:

The Bantam BRC design kinda "won" basically because it was the only one to submit a working prototype :roflol:
...but, because Bantum was a small company the military submitted the design to Willys (the only other company to respond to the military request) & Ford (probably due to their manufacturing capabilities) & they were encouraged to enhance the design.

Fords most notable contribution to the design was the extensive use of low cost, easily produced "stamped" parts (like the body & grille)
...& for Willy's it was the powerful "Go Devil" engine.

Another important acclimate of the BRC design, was the use of already available "off the shelf" parts
...with tested designs
...already available inventory
...& also, easily increased manufacturing capabilities ;)
So, once the military approved a design (M38) "Jeeps" started infesting our planet (~650,000) of this designation :smiley_omg:

The ones built (here in Toledo, Ohio) by Willys were designated MB's
...& the ones Ford's built were GPW's

Then, after WW2 Willys started building a civilian version of the M38's that many soldiers relied on daily & had so much experience with
...& so, the CJ (Civilian Jeep) was "born" :sifone:

Um...I think they just hung up on me????? :furious2:
 
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madprofessor

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Don't like being a wet blanket here, but need to voice my main concern about real Jeeps. I've seen a video of several top-heavy vehicles doing an experimental rollover point test at the same speed, and the Jeep was the worst one, rolled over very easily.
Not sure how that would apply to your mini-Jeep, but you're a solidly built guy who I think in a test drive would cause a repeat of the video I saw. For your kids, I'm sure it would be much more stable.
I'm thinking throttle limiter and decreased lock-to-lock steering radius if you really stick to a scale reproduction. Fudging the scale for a wider wheelbase and/or lowered seating could only help the speed/radius of the rollover point.
 

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A few more Jeep details, before we move on :thumbsup:

"The CJ (for "Civilian Jeep") series were literally the first "Jeep" branded vehicles sold commercially to the civilian public, beginning in 1945 with the CJ-2A, followed by the CJ-3A in 1949 and the CJ-3B in 1953.

These early Jeeps are frequently referred to as "flat-fenders" because their front fenders were completely flat and straight, just as on the original WW II model (the Willys MB and identical Ford GPW).

Then, beginning with the CJ-5 (in 1955) they featured rounded fenders and hoods, first introduced as the military Willys MD (or M38A1). The (slightly) restyled body was mostly prompted to clear the taller new overhead-valve Hurricane engine."


The Jeep CJ (built from ~1945 - 1986) is one of the few vehicles that has had over a 30 "production run" with very few changes.

Its replacement, the conceptually consistent Jeep Wrangler series, has remained in production since (1986 - present)
...& remarkably, still looks pretty much the same. (for over 75 years) :smiley_omg:


* Other "Jeep fun facts"
The Wrangler is one of the few remaining four-wheel-drive vehicles with solid front and rear axles.

These axles are known for their durability, strength, and articulation.

Another benefit of solid axle vehicles is they tend to be easier and cheaper to "lift" with aftermarket suspension systems.

This increases the distance between the axle and chassis of the vehicle.

By increasing this distance, larger tires can be installed, which will increase the ground clearance, allowing it to traverse even larger and more difficult obstacles.

In addition to higher ground clearance, many owners aim to increase suspension articulation or "flex" to give their Jeeps greatly improved off-road capabilities.

Good suspension articulation keeps all four wheels in contact with the ground and maintains traction.

Other useful features of Jeeps are their short wheelbases, narrow frames, ample approach, breakover, and departure angles, thus enabling them to traverse through places where full-size four-wheel drives have difficulty.

AMC (American Motors Company) carried over the practice of using "available" & "off the shelf" parts when building the CJ's
...so, some came from the factory with Ford engines, some Chevy
...some has ford style steering columns & others had Chrysler style columns etc.

So, I have found that it's kinda difficult to "pin down" the actual specs for a Jeep CJ
...but, on the other hand these CJ's have been built by so many different companies
...in so many different countries
...over so many years
...& with so, many "slight" variations, that I guess I can just literally, "take my pic" :2guns:
 

Functional Artist

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Yes sir, it seems that many variations of Jeeps have been built :cheers2:

Jeeps built outside the USA​

Jeeps have been built and/or assembled around the world by various companies.
  • Portugal – Bravia Sarl – 1960s to 1980s This Lisbon company assembled a number of Kaiser Jeep M-201 models from several Spanish EBRO and VIASA parts built to order for the USAF airfields & the US Army based at the time in Portugal, of the 500 vehicles made, most had American running gear.
  • Russia - Russian company APAL produces the Jeeplike Stalker which utilizes a space frame covered with plastic panels, using Lada Niva chassis and mechanicals.
  • Spain – Vehículos Industriales y Agrícolas, S.A (VIASA), absorbed by Ebro trucks, and later sold to Nissan – 1960-1990s For instance built a long-wheelbase version of the CJ-3B from 1955 to 1968.
  • Turkey – Tuzla – 1954-1970s
  • Venezuela – Valencia Carabobo 1962–2011, 1962 Tejerias Edo Aragua Willys de Venezuela, S.A, 1979–2011 Ensambladora Carabobo C.A Valencia Edo Carabobo
 

Functional Artist

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Don't like being a wet blanket here, but need to voice my main concern about real Jeeps. I've seen a video of several top-heavy vehicles doing an experimental rollover point test at the same speed, and the Jeep was the worst one, rolled over very easily.
Not sure how that would apply to your mini-Jeep, but you're a solidly built guy who I think in a test drive would cause a repeat of the video I saw. For your kids, I'm sure it would be much more stable.
I'm thinking throttle limiter and decreased lock-to-lock steering radius if you really stick to a scale reproduction. Fudging the scale for a wider wheelbase and/or lowered seating could only help the speed/radius of the rollover point.
Yes, I remember the 60 minutes (TV show) "special" on how easily Jeeps sometimes roll over
...but, they didn't have a big 'ol heavy battery mounted down low "in their belly" (like mine is gonna have) :thumbsup:

Um..."solidly built guy"? :rolleyes:
...what are you "trying" to say? :huh:

Here is a "rough idea" for the width (~32" wide)

SAM_6186.JPG
 

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Yeah and Stellantis/FCA sued and won in open court over the Mahinda Roxor, which is why they have a different grille design now. Would like to own one of these, nice little diesel and manual transmission, has a nice aftermarket support behind it.

Struck Corp out of Wisconsin, had the Mini Beep that they had discontinued it a couple years ago. Seemed like a nice little DIY kit that was also partly amphibious.

So this one going to be 4wd?
 

Functional Artist

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So this one going to be 4wd?
I certainly thought about it
...but, finding a mini (~36") solid front axle
...& then, figuring "how" to electrically motivate it

Then you have to "account for" the additional power draw
...& the extra weight

So, no probably not :huh:

I'm not trying to make an exact copy or duplicate of a Jeep
...just a mini version that kinda looks like a Jeep
...& kinda acts like a jeep

I gots some ideas :cheers2:
 

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"Playing" with some numbers (going off of the pic in the first post) it looks like 50% may be just a bit too small
...but, if I (divide by 2 (50%) & then multiply by .1 & add them together) the numbers seem to work better.

So, it looks like ~33" wide
...with a ~45" wheelbase
...& maybe ~72" long, overall

Yup, them sounds like some go kart numbers :thumbsup:
SAM_6153 (1).JPG
 

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Check out this thread if you havent already
 
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Thepartsguy

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Yeah and Stellantis/FCA sued and won in open court over the Mahinda Roxor, which is why they have a different grille design now. Would like to own one of these, nice little diesel and manual transmission, has a nice aftermarket support behind it.

Struck Corp out of Wisconsin, had the Mini Beep that they had discontinued it a couple years ago. Seemed like a nice little DIY kit that was also partly amphibious.

So this one going to be 4wd?
fun fact about the roxor or whatever. do you want a brand spanking new 1970’s Jeep cj5?? pull the whole front end/vin tag << hey that’s illegal! and bolt it to the front end of a roxor.. bam new Jeep! sooo many people did this and I think of them as the last jeeps. grandfathered into the world by hacks.
 

madprofessor

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.but, they didn't have a big 'ol heavy battery mounted down low "in their belly" (like mine is gonna have) :thumbsup:
So you're estimating that a scale repro with the low-slung extra weight will provide what? Enough stability to make it match the full-scale? Just enough to improve on it?
Um..."solidly built guy"? :rolleyes:
...what are you "trying" to say? :huh:
Nothing derogatory, thought hard about how to say it so. Seen your electric videos, I'm 6'3" skinny at 150#, and you look more solidly built than me, probably weigh more, therefore more top-heavy rollover potential. Kids look like they weigh less. That's all, please take no offense.
 

Functional Artist

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Check out this thread if you havent already
Hey Landuse
No, I hadn't seen that thread, Thanks! :thumbsup:

But, I saw a video of it on YouTube during my research

* The videos posted by Bando (in his thread) don't seem to work :(
 

Functional Artist

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So you're estimating that a scale repro with the low-slung extra weight will provide what? Enough stability to make it match the full-scale? Just enough to improve on it?

Nothing derogatory, thought hard about how to say it so. Seen your electric videos, I'm 6'3" skinny at 150#, and you look more solidly built than me, probably weigh more, therefore more top-heavy rollover potential. Kids look like they weigh less. That's all, please take no offense.
Hey Mad,
Just BYB :cornut:

Well, Ima thinkin' a low geared machine
...with some off-road capability
...& maybe ~25MPH top speed :auto:

Plus, with it being ~33" wide
...with only ~6" of ground clearance
...& the battery pack mounted way down low, Ima thinking it should be kinda hard to "flip" ;)
 

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I must say the craftsmanship on Bando's Jeep (in the video above) is superb. :2guns:
but
I think (if possible) Ima gonna try to maintain the proper seating position
...so, ya sit down "in" it (like in a full size Jeep)
&
I'd like to keep the solid axle "concept" for both the front & rear axles
&
Skip the (4) leaf springs & upgrade to (4) coil over shocks (while trying to maintain the "look" of leaf springs)
&
Upgrade the frame from a standard C-channel, Ladder style frame to a tubular 3D Space frame

So, lets see what I can come up with ;)

Ima thinking the seat should be a few inches above the floor (just like in a full size Jeep)
...but, not back in the cargo area
...kinda like this :thumbsup:
SAM_6098.JPG
 
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