Chain lube...

[Bbqjoe]

Around 6:30 a took a triple shot of adderall. Got a little off topic

I thought your drug regime was supposed to fix all that?

 

[Hellion]

He's not an idiot, he just plays one on diygokarts.

 

[Bbqjoe]

He's not an idiot, he just plays one on diygokarts.

Well he did fix the board the other day...

 

[bob58o]

I got the pulley for my axle (to run an alternator) from SurplusCenter. They have some large diameter 1" pulleys for around $40. What size do you plan to put on the rear?

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-...5-75-O-D-1-BORE-1-GROOVE-PULLEY-1-BK160-E.axd

 

[esfoder]

I don't know why belt drive wouldn't work. All of my rock crushers and most of the conveyors at work run belts. I have 200 hp motors running 6 to 8 belts and don't slip a bit. In my experience belt drive is far superior than chain in dirty dusty rock crushing applications. Go with the b size belt. Skip the automotive style. Just my 2 cents worth. Although it might be a pain to install and remove. Can't take belts apart.

 

[Gear_head]

My background is with dirt bikes and quads where I use middle of the road road o-ring chains. I have never had one fail, with lots of abuse. I'm responsible for 6 machines and their chains. I spray them with a cheap can of silicone from any local auto parts store. If I'm going to be In a dusty area or before a big I ride, I will soak them via a spray can.

 

[bob58o]

So if you run TWO belts does that mean that only about 60-70% of the engine's power is making it to the axle? 15-20% loss each belt system?

 

[anickode]

So if you run TWO belts does that mean that only about 60-70% of the engine's power is making it to the axle? 15-20% loss each belt system?

Cogged belts and ribbed flat (serpentine) belt do not cause the same power loss as a vee belt system does. They are much more efficient, which is why cars all use serpentine belt systems now. Cogged belts can transmit more power since they are not relying on pure friction to provide the mechanical engagement. Efficiency loss of a cogged belt is only a bit higher than that of a chain drive.

O-ring chain might be the way to go... Keeps the crud out from between the pins and rollers.

 

[esfoder]

Not sure why a belt would eat 20%power? I've replaced chain drives with belts and did not up the electric motor to compensate for it and had no problems. I'm just saying in my line of work (rock crushers) chain drive anything is almost nonexistent. Maintenance with chain drives in that environment is a nightmare. But that doesn't have much to do with go karts either. I think the biggest problem with chains on go karts is the low quality of the chain to start with. Chinese or like the parts houses calls them "import" chain is not much good but it's cheap. Maybe I'll do a comparison of chain/belt drive on a kart and see which one is faster? I'm only 6'8" tall and 290 pounds not sure but I might be to small to test the load transferring ability of one to another???

 

[MTNSleder]

So if you run TWO belts does that mean that only about 60-70% of the engine's power is making it to the axle? 15-20% loss each belt system?

If I'm losing that much power to belt's maybe I'll just stick to the chain... IDK

O-ring chain might be the way to go... Keeps the crud out from between the pins and rollers.

O-ring chain Eh. I don't know what that is I'll google it....

Finished googling... O-ring chain, maybe that's the way to go.. I still like the belt idea though...

 

[Randy H]

A torque converter system might have 20% losses. A properly set up regular v belt drive system, maybe 10% but likely 5% or less.

I worked in the mining industry like esfoder, many years ago, the 80's. One thing about good ole' v belts. If a conveyor or crusher jammed up, the belts would happily burn away, protecting a $10,000 crusher motor as well as alerting an operator that wasn't paying attention.
I miss those days sometimes. The mixture of Meropa 68 (Taffyy like grease)and crusher dust.

 

[anickode]

A torque converter system might have 20% losses. A properly set up regular v belt drive system, maybe 10% but likely 5% or less.

I worked in the mining industry like esfoder, many years ago, the 80's. One thing about good ole' v belts. If a conveyor or crusher jammed up, the belts would happily burn away, protecting a $10,000 crusher motor as well as alerting an operator that wasn't paying attention.
I miss those days sometimes. The mixture of Meropa 68 (Taffyy like grease)and crusher dust.

Ugh... Open gear grease, the bane of my existence. We have an old Hall triple chairlift, ring and pinion drive at work. It requires daily application. Squeeze yourself up into the drive deck and try not to brush up against anything on the way. Scrape yesterday's grease out of the tray, and then go tooth by tooth, applying a dollop to each face, all the way around the 8' diameter gear. A lovely way to start your morning, working by a headlamp in sub-freezing temps.

With belt drives, the larger the pitch diameter of the sheaves, the less loss there is. Tight bends cause a lot of friction between the belt and the sheave face, and also internally within the belt. Friction = efficiency loss. My rat wagon kart for example, has a horrible drive efficiency, due to all the bends and twists in the drive belt. To the point where the kart won't roll away when sitting on a 20% slope.

Torque converters have an inherent efficiency loss due to slippage. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[esfoder]

Ugh... Open gear grease, the bane of my existence. We have an old Hall triple chairlift, ring and pinion drive at work. It requires daily application. Squeeze yourself up into the drive deck and try not to brush up against anything on the way. Scrape yesterday's grease out of the tray, and then go tooth by tooth, applying a dollop to each face, all the way around the 8' diameter gear. A lovely way to start your morning, working by a headlamp in sub-freezing temps.

With belt drives, the larger the pitch diameter of the sheaves, the less loss there is. Tight bends cause a lot of friction between the belt and the sheave face, and also internally within the belt. Friction = efficiency loss. My rat wagon kart for example, has a horrible drive efficiency, due to all the bends and twists in the drive belt. To the point where the kart won't roll away when sitting on a 20% slope

Torque converters have an inherent efficiency loss due to slippage. It's just the nature of the beast.

I agree with your point of view. I also think if a person replaces a chain with a belt say from the engine,straight to the axle the belt wouldn't eat much more or less power than a chain, but the maintenance would be much less. I've had belts last 10 years on shaker screens if aligned and taken care of properly.

 

[MTNSleder]

Well I'm giving the belt a shot... Got a 2 inch pulley mounted on the torque converter, Have to Find a pulley for the axle still...

Maybe I should start a new thread or a mod rename this one, Were obviously not talking about chain lube but still it's a interesting thread....

 

[esfoder]

If I were to do this I'd go with a B size belt. You'll have to go to a industrial supply store to get it and the shieves. (Pulleys)

 

[anickode]

I agree with your point of view. I also think if a person replaces a chain with a belt say from the engine,straight to the axle the belt wouldn't eat much more or less power than a chain, but the maintenance would be much less. I've had belts last 10 years on shaker screens if aligned and taken care of properly.

While that is partially true, the actual use of a v belt as a single reduction drive on a kart isn't a realistic possibility. Your typical belt centrifugal clutch has a 3" sheave on it, which would require an 18" sheave to get proper gearing to spin a 13-15" tire with a typically sized engine. Not going to work so well. A smaller driving sheave would likely have insufficient engagement area with the belt to prevent slippage without running very high tension, and that would naturally cause the belt to wear more rapidly, along with the clutch bushing.

Plus there's the added headache of changing said belt. Unless your drive was set up outboard of the bearings, you'd have to remove the entire axle to replace it, and being a closed loop, no permanently installed parts can pass through it.

---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 PM ----------

Well I'm giving the belt a shot... Got a 2 inch pulley mounted on the torque converter, Have to Find a pulley for the axle still...

Maybe I should start a new thread or a mod rename this one, Were obviously not talking about chain lube but still it's a interesting thread....

So that'll be what, a 12" pulley on the axle for a 6:1 ratio?

I look forward to seeing if you have any belt slippage issues.

 

[MTNSleder]

So that'll be what, a 12" pulley on the axle for a 6:1 ratio?

I look forward to seeing if you have any belt slippage issues.

I was thinking of a 9" pulley. My set up with the chain was a 4.8:1 ratio and it ran really well... So with a 9 inch pulley I should end up with a similar ratio eh... The kart with me in it is maybe 280 lb max, so there's not a lot of weight to haul around...

 

[Bbqjoe]

Make sure to use a good lube on your belt.

 

[Randy H]

Make sure to use a good lube on your belt.

Don't forget to lube up your motorcycle tires.

 

[Bbqjoe]

Don't forget to lube up your motorcycle tires.

I probably will!