The small engine nitrous trend

[outcrydrummer]

I am by far a huge supporter of nitrous to get that out of the way.
I have used nitrous on every single performance car build I have ever done.
I absolutely love nitrous in every aspect except having to refill the bottle.

So now that's out of the way

I see these youtube video's from popular youtube channel creators advertising x brand small engine nitrous kit etc.
They always offer up a comprehensive how to install (Not that it's difficult on these applications)
But rarely ever give out sound advice on what to expect, what to consider, how to install safely, and vastly more important to me how to determine if that 60 bucks you spent for it is worth a crap or money wasted.

The huge issue I have with these kits is that you have to rejet your carb in order to gain anything.

Most of these engines (predators especially) run very lean from the factory.

So suppose you know nothing of nitrous or small engine fue/air mixtures. You install a kit and you use it and end up ruining your top end because of these videos.... well that's great.

Another thing is suppose you do know these things. So you attempt to rejet to the best of your ability to compensate for the nitrous and now your running super rich 95% of the time.
So you end up loosing power 95% off the time to gain 2 hp 5% of the time and you've spent close to 80 bucks at this point.

I think these guys owe it to their viewers to cover all of these things when promoting this stuff. A lot of the people watching the channels don't know much about small engines and watch to learn and get cool ideas for their videos.

I certainly plan to make a video to cover some of these. Unfortunately I don't reach many viewers but if it helps anyone I guess it's worth the small effort to make a quick video.

What are your guys thoughts?????

Just to recap. I'm not saying I'm Mr. Safety.....if you have seen my posts you know I am quite the opposite. However, when I do put out advice or information I am sure to make sure the viewer, reader, listener, etc is completely informed and able to make their own decision.

 

[KartFab]

Go for it man! Might be a good idea to make a video of what works and show how it works so people can follow the right path.

Just to add my 2 cents about putting nitrous in something :

how big and long of a shot will cause so much heat that you ruin piston or cause normally gapped rings to butt together?
When is it a good idea to get a forged piston?
When is it a good idea to gap your rings per the nitrous specs?
How long can you run it on nitrous with upgrades?
Pros and Cons of Nitrous vs other mods (e.g. change compression ratio, other performance mods before adding nitrous etc)
Expected gains in hp/torque/power and for how long + dyno runs to back it up.

Now that would be a great video to watch!!

 

[Kentucky Boy]

If you could rig it up to somehow deliver a shot of nitrous and a little spray of Extra fuel it would be safer I think. I've been interested in those small kits also. Just as something kind of stupid to get and add to my kart. I wouldn't expect much.

 

[outcrydrummer]

Kart fab that would a very in depth and quality video for sure. So many variables might be better to keep it simple. We are talking very small shots of nitrous but used incorrectly could be terrible.
I do plan to hit on money for nitrous in comparison to increasing static compression, better cam, etc.

Kentucky a wet kit (nitrous and fuel) would be pricey in a kit but the best option for sure.
I think on a small engine like a predator money is better spent on naturally aspirated peeformance parts where you can use the extra power all the time.

 

[chancer]

I do not really see any market for nitrous on small engines. I mean serious Karters are racers (NOT DRAGS) and must follow a set of rules.
The Yard Kart guy playing in the yard with his kids aint using nitrous.
There is not a huge market in the Minibike Drag racing industry. Again Rules.
Same thing in the Mini drags.

So who is this kit marketed to? No offense to these 2 but here goes.
Flying hillbilly would try it Just for fun and could care less if it Blows up.
And Freerunner15 supposedly has one of these kits.

I think it is a good idea to do a Video explaining why this is not an idea for everybody.
Like you said 95% of the time engine runs like crap for a 2HP gain 5% of the time.
I just do not see who, where and why anybody wants this.
Unless they have money to blow and like the Novelty of it. If I had a bunch of money and a spare Kart and engine it would be fun to take out and show off once in a while I guess.
But even then you need a well built well prepped kart that will handle the boost of speed.

---------- Post added at 09:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------

Wait Nevermind. Ummmm? Gearing? Nobody can really get the benefit out of nitrous in a Kart!
Seriously how does nitrous work in a single geared application? Just Dumb to add Nitrous I think.

 

[outcrydrummer]

Chancer there are actually several videos from popular kart channels using and discussing nitrous. Red beards garage for an example.
Nitrous would and does increase power even in a single speed kart when used properly but is it worth it? I say no.
You increase power, torque notably, so it would acclerate harder for sure. Of course its a novalty item but it plays into the cool factor.
I could see someone using one of these kits on a minibike as minibike drags have become very popular.

 

[bob58o]

Crack a whip it near the air filter and see what happens.
Walmart has cheap crackers for CO2 for filling up bike tires.
I have wondered. Not wet, but cheap and easy.

 

[bob58o]

Well for a mere $420, you can get this wet kit I really want.
There is a market Chancer. If this wet kit was less than 2 bills, I'd own it already.

99 for engine.
700 for performance parts.
420 for nitrous kit.

The kits get more expensive when they have solenoids and such.

http://www.nitrousexpress.com/61025-10p-single-cylinder-proton-system-w-10-lb-bottle.html

Direct-port system for carbureted single cylinder engine. Includes our exclusive "PROTON" solenoid assembly,braided stainless hoses,Piranha nozzle,fuel pump, relay,microswitch, arming switch, jetting for 10,15,20 and25HP.1.0 lb bottle and two stainless steel bottle brackets.

 

[outcrydrummer]

Problem with that kit bob is it far too large for a predator etc. I wouldnt run over a 2hp shot without having forged internals and nitrous specific rings file fit and timing retarded atleast 6 degrees.

But yeah any wet kit is gonna be the way to go. My nova had a 225 ahot on it and my mustang had 150.

When we built my dads maverick the 347 was built for nitrous and hes yet to even arm the kit lol

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

Very good points by everyone. Personally I think rather than just testing and reviewing as is, maybe we could all work together to try to figure out a way to make it work.
My first thought is of something similar to an aerosol can that would draw fuel in with the nitrous, as a side benefit race fuel could be used with the nitrous to help keep the piston intact.
Anyone know anything about how aerosol works?
I just put my power adder in the gas tank, nitromethane adds a heck of a kick.

 

[Bbqjoe]

I suppose there are many reasons to put nitrous on your kart.
But this is the only reason I can think of.

 

[AltuveRules]

Portable air tank + paint sprayer?! A paint sprayer would spray some air with the fuel(does that matter?) but you can adjust air and fuel (I mean paint ) flow. Maybe if you adjusted it to the little fuel a 2 shot would require the tank would last long enough... idk

 

[bob58o]

I have a question.... When people say you need to retard the timing, does that mean vs stock? Or vs the 32 degrees that many are running?
Like If my engine runs well at 32 degrees BTDC, would I put the stock key back in to go back to 24 degrees or would I put have to put a key in backwards to retard it to like 18 degrees BTDC??


EDIT Found this.
Ignition timing should as a baseline be retarded to 1/5 to 2 degrees for every 50 h.p. worth of nitrous hp used. Ignition timing should be retarded from the best timing on motor only. (The point at which best MPH or Torque was achieved.)


---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------

Problem with that kit bob is it far too large for a predator etc. I wouldnt run over a 2hp shot without having forged internals and nitrous specific rings file fit and timing retarded atleast 6 degrees.

But yeah any wet kit is gonna be the way to go. My nova had a 225 ahot on it and my mustang had 150.

When we built my dads maverick the 347 was built for nitrous and hes yet to even arm the kit lol

There is a calculator online somewhere. I think a 0.012" fuel jet mixed with a 0.012" Nitrous jet is a good starting point.

Epoxy in the jets, then re-drill to correct size.

https://store.schnitzracing.com/nitrous-jetting-charts/
0.014" Nitrous jet and 0.016 Fuel Jet yields 6 HP per cylinder.

 

[outcrydrummer]

Most actual nitrous kits come with charts etc to tell you what size fuel jet to use based on the HP shot you want to run. Different companies do this different ways but they all have the information in the kits so you can't mess up nitrous to fuel jetting. That's the easy part lol.

 

[chancer]

Yes I think the Detroit Mini Bike Drag Scene is the best use of this.

 

[outcrydrummer]

^^^^^^^ Yeah exactly.

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

I like how you guys just act like we aren't a bunch of power hungry fiends ourselves.
My neighbor built an atomizing spray head for a heater experiment he was working on that might just work with something like this.

Bob, I always started by pulling 2degrees per 50 horse shot and advanced it one degree at a time until it quit picking up mph (drag cars on the drag strip again) and then backed it off 2 degrees for safety. I guess you'd have to do some division to figure out what you'd have to pull on a single cyl as I'm pretty sure one wouldn't survive an additional 50hp.

 

[outcrydrummer]

We are all almost power hungry. But the nitrous kits they are selling aren't the best bang for the buck by a long shot.

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

We are all almost power hungry. But the nitrous kits they are selling aren't the best bang for the buck by a long shot.

Exactly, I bet we could figure out a better way.

 

[Bbqjoe]

Exactly, I bet we could figure out a better way.

Why nitrous? Is it the way it burns?
Why not propane, or acetylene or.....?


Just curious.