ML-TOYS
New member
When this happened it was running correct ?
Edit, read your first post again
Edit, read your first post again
I cooked my Predator :(
- Thread starter Bosch
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Bosch
New member
Yes. We were pulling ea other on sleds on the snow packed roads for about 15 minutes. It was about 30 deg air temp. I made a hard power-on left turn and while exiting the turn it screeched and locked up. Would not pull or rotate. Pushed it home, dejected. Attempted to pull it again in the shop, it turned hard about 1/8th rotation with the same ugly screech. I came out the following night and it still wouldn't turn.
The fact that I could push it home implies the tc shouldn't be locked up, correct?
The fact that I could push it home implies the tc shouldn't be locked up, correct?
machinist@large
Active member
This really is starting to sound like a case of cold seizure, but without more details, we can't be sure. For the record, a cold seizure doesn't necessarily mean catastrophic damage, but some may be there.
If anything, you need to look even more closely than a major case of hot seizure....
If anything, you need to look even more closely than a major case of hot seizure....
OzFab
Well-known member
How's the pull start mech?
with Pat, it sounds like a cold seize issue...
with Pat, it sounds like a cold seize issue...Bosch
New member
I may pull the top off, but prob not tomorrow with the holiday. Why would a cold seizure lock up the piston only to let go again later? I'm not saying it can't happen, just trying to figure it out. I think a good look down the top is in order.
Xtreme Yard Karts
New member
Doesn't cold seizing normally happen soon when the engine starts up? I've never seen it happen once an engine gets to normal operating temp, unless it goes underwater (Honda Ranchers are notorious for this).
Bosch
New member
Agree with that point. I am SURE we were running 10-15 minutes before it happened.
If I wake up early I may remove the top. I have a bad habit of waking up at 5:30 in the morning, even when I don't need to. But I have to go get my mother in law tomorrow because she's old and cant drive an hour ea way. So my day is fairly full. I do appreciate all the replies.
If I wake up early I may remove the top. I have a bad habit of waking up at 5:30 in the morning, even when I don't need to. But I have to go get my mother in law tomorrow because she's old and cant drive an hour ea way. So my day is fairly full. I do appreciate all the replies.
OzFab
Well-known member
Did you miss the bit about
Engines are designed to have minute tolerances at operating temperature which, due to heat expansion, are, obviously, larger when the engine is cold; these tolerances close up at a predetermined rate under normal operating conditions...
Snow = colder or lower than "normal" operating temperature which means everything has contracted past the "normal" point; as a result, during warm up, everything is expanding at an unusual or abnormal rate & the different components are not reacting to each other as they were designed to do...
In these conditions, even after running for 15 minutes, due to the atmospheric conditions, the engine still may not have been at "normal operating temperature", hence, the cold seize...
DeathMachine
New member
Then why don't these engines cold seize when used on a snowblower?
machinist@large
Active member
My neighbors when I was growing up were big into 1970's snowmobile's. I was just a kid back then, but that's when I first heard of this, and how much it took to try and understand it. The funny part is the basics were understood back in WW1, when airplane engines started suffering from it when they tried to maximize their climb rate from the ground from a standing start.....
EDIT: DM, snow blower's are engineered with the proper clearances so they don't. The more run of the mill small engine is expected to run in much more varied climates....
When I heard talk of screeching, I had the same thought. I am not sure if clones do the same thing, but I know on briggs that the starter clutch and a messed up recoil spring can cause the same noise and make it hard to pull the rope to turn it over
Take the recoil cover off just to check
OzFab
Well-known member
Because their surroundings trap the heat close to the engine & their not flying along at 25mph in sub zero temps...
Bosch
New member
I removed the pull start cover this morning, all seems well there.
Ok, time for a noob question: what does the large white nylon gear do? Valves?
(see previous photo in pg 2 of this thread)
Ok, time for a noob question: what does the large white nylon gear do? Valves?
(see previous photo in pg 2 of this thread)
Bosch
New member
never mind. I answered my own question.
Xtreme Yard Karts
New member
I understand all that, but I was under the assumption that he been running the a long time when he said he had been pulling the kids around on sleds.
However, since he said it may have only been running 10 - 15 minutes, it may be a cold seize problem.
If this was the case, I'd bet that it is due to tolerances being tighter on newer small engines than they used to be. I'm sure with emissions laws being what they are now, but I've honestly never cold seized an older engine of this type in even colder temperatures than 30 degrees. In fact, when I was young and dumb, we used to crank them up and as soon as they would idle, we were WOT and never had a problem, no matter how cold it was. This used to be more common in motorcycle engines because the tolerances were much tighter than an old 5 HP Briggs or Tecumseh.
DeathMachine
New member
I'm running a Predator on my snowblower, fire it up and go. No issues with it, or the 3 other engines that have been on it. (I keep borrowing them for other projects, lol)
Although I did discover that snowmobile engines won't live long being run hard in 90* weather...
Although I did discover that snowmobile engines won't live long being run hard in 90* weather...
Bosch
New member
I have the valve cover removed. There appear to be four bolts holding the top of the head on, two inside the valves. Do I need to disassemble the rocker arms? Or if I remove the four bolts will the entire assembly liftoff?
Xtreme Yard Karts
New member
You CAN do it without loosening the rockers, but you'll have to re-adjust the valves when/if you put the head back on, so you might as well loosen the rockers before you do to get the spring pressure off of them.
ML-TOYS
New member
Yep i put a predator fresh out of the box on my snowblower last year and just ran the heck out of it the next day for hours
Bosch
New member
The point that was being made earlier was that a snow blower is basically stationary, not moving at 25 miles an hour with wind on it.
Now that I know that the engine will turn over again, I am inclined to simply reassemble the whole thing and see if it will start and run.
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