Project Low Rider

[Russell ATV]

Ok, I have a design technology with my karts using spring steel as a suspension, so I will try the same idea on a different type of Mini Bike. I call it a true "Low Rider".

I will be using 13" off road karting tires, and will have the frame in line with their axles. The seat will be that of a go kart, and your legs will in the same posistion as a kart with your feet close to the front tire.

Profile will look like a kart, but only two wheels.

Here is a pic of the rear frame that have the engine and tire. This will be connected to the seat frame section.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

A 2 wheel kart, NEAT! Sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[jr dragster T]

Kind of sound's like one of those lay down bicycle's. I hope stability wont be a issue.

 

[SpyGuy]

This ought to be interesting. Are you going to set up the front end so that the front wheel leans from side to side, instead of a standard-style front end?

 

[t0x1k]

Dude you better reinforce that frame.
Also you better be wearing a respirator, not a cheap mask.
You're using conduit, it's galvanized and releases toxic zinc fumes and it's made to be bent by hand on a bender so it will flex and not flex back.

 

[Russell ATV]

This ought to be interesting. Are you going to set up the front end so that the front wheel leans from side to side, instead of a standard-style front end?

Kind of like that. This should create a rake similiar to a chopper (in terms of wheel forward of the center post). I am hoping this will make it more stable, since choppers do want to go straight.

The pin that connects the frame to the front suspension element will be inclined similiar to Kingpin Inclination on a kart. This should make it auto center and make it less nervous. If it works, I think this will be a very unique and cool machine with sales potential with the karts. The low center of gravity and weight distribution would make it an ideal drag mini, and might also allow for some roll protection since you will phycially be sitting in the machine versus on top of it. It looks to have a wheel base of around 5".

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[Russell ATV]

Dude you better reinforce that frame.
Also you better be wearing a respirator, not a cheap mask.
You're using conduit, it's galvanized and releases toxic zinc fumes and it's made to be bent by hand on a bender so it will flex and not flex back.

I am using 1" conduit, and have been using it for over a year. The conduit is simply a cheap prototyping material to test pheasibility. I use a 12 ton tube bender to make necessary bends, as it cannot be done by hand.

As for the gases, I am aware of the fumes, and weld in a well ventilated environment (outside).

 

[t0x1k]

It can be done by hand using those conduit benders on a pole.
Just trying to be a look out. I got sick from inhaling some. Worst headache ever.

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

How will the steering be set up? Like a bike with a couple swivels to bring the wheel to the driver? I would LOVE to see a concept drawing of this, I think its gonna end up being my new kart. I kinda want a minibike but I like being near the ground.

Will throttle/brake be foot or hand controlled?

 

[Russell ATV]

How will the steering be set up? Like a bike with a couple swivels to bring the wheel to the driver? I would LOVE to see a concept drawing of this, I think its gonna end up being my new kart. I kinda want a minibike but I like being near the ground.

Will throttle/brake be foot or hand controlled?

I almost consider it articulated, meaning that the front suspension is more like a subframe than a traditional set of forks. Using a handle bar, I will rotate the front suspension frame from the pin that connects the two frames together. I will put both the throttle grip and rear brake lever on the handle bar, just like a mini bike.

I still have not completely figured out how to do my feet, as I may continue the driver frame around the front suspension (kindy v out around it). Still lots of unknowns, but I have a general idea is mind.

I have been designing mechinical systems for so long, that I rarely prototype in cad. I might draw something up to figure out the geometry, but I save the cad work for fabricating pieces that are either too complex, or will be made in volume. Otherwise, I can quickly drill, cut, bend, and weld quickly. Another reason I use cheap steel, I can play with different shapes and ideas.

Keep watching this thread, all will be revealed.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[ed1380]

so no sketches?

looks promising. suscribed

 

[Russell ATV]

Ok, busy week, so not much progress. However, I have completed the front fork/sub frame connection. I went with a 45 degree pin from the front wheel assembly to the passenger frame. Just like kingpin inclination in a kart, this should produce a strong self centering of the front wheel. Tough to tell if it will be enough to offset the significant distance of the wheel in front of the pin. It will be low and long, a true low rider.

Pictures included, enjoy.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[jr dragster T]

Lookin' good!. One thing I find interesting is that the yellow and blue clone's come with grade 5. 10 mm head side cover bolt's and aparently stretch which I think is a load of bull because the cast side cover will hairline crack before all of the grade 5 bolt's flex. Anyway my clone came stock with grade 10.9 sidecover bolt's with a 14 mm head. Isnt the 10.9 bolt a racing upgrade not a stock thing?

 

[Kenny_McCormic]

Nice suspension.

 

[SpyGuy]

Definitely different, and definitely good work.

A suggestion or two that you may (or may not) want to consider:
-For your feet, what about a set of folding footpegs on either side of the front wheel?
-For steering, why not use some universal joints from a socket set?
-Also for steering, perhaps a set of cut-down mountain bike handlebars to make drag bars?
-May want to consider a set of outriggers that would come out only if you tip the bike over too far. I've seen them on several of the V-8 powered motorcycles, and it might not be a bad idea. Crash bars around the front and rear would be a nice touch, too, for engine and leg protection.

Keep up the nice work and updates. I really want to see this thing running.

 

[Russell ATV]

Lookin' good!. One thing I find interesting is that the yellow and blue clone's come with grade 5. 10 mm head side cover bolt's and aparently stretch which I think is a load of bull because the cast side cover will hairline crack before all of the grade 5 bolt's flex. Anyway my clone came stock with grade 10.9 sidecover bolt's with a 14 mm head. Isnt the 10.9 bolt a racing upgrade not a stock thing?

For the chinese, they don't engineer, they re-engineer, so I am sure they used what ever Honda, or the competition used. Some parts need better fasteners than others, but when building large quantities of products, it is cheaper to buy large quantities of one screw than smaller quantities of different screws. SO, the same screw with far more strength than needed. The Chinese market place is also full of immitation fasterners. They are known to produce "grade 8" bolts with the 6 hash marks on top, but they are not heat treated like ANSI Grade 8 bolts. The bolts on the Clones (I like the term Chonda or Hongda) may in fact not be the real thing. I have not really looked into yet, as the failure modes are rarely the fasteners (rods, flywheels, rings, etc).

Russ

 

[Russell ATV]

Definitely different, and definitely good work.

A suggestion or two that you may (or may not) want to consider:
-For your feet, what about a set of folding footpegs on either side of the front wheel?
-For steering, why not use some universal joints from a socket set?
-Also for steering, perhaps a set of cut-down mountain bike handlebars to make drag bars?
-May want to consider a set of outriggers that would come out only if you tip the bike over too far. I've seen them on several of the V-8 powered motorcycles, and it might not be a bad idea. Crash bars around the front and rear would be a nice touch, too, for engine and leg protection.

Keep up the nice work and updates. I really want to see this thing running.

Lots of options on the handle bars, I am thing about some ape hangers...... no, don't want to kill myself. I will likely bolt some bars down to the square tubing at the same angle as the kingpin/fork bolt.

If the design works, I could add lots of stuff to make it "crash capable". If the design works, I don't see why the design could not be scaled for a more streetable size and power........if it works.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[SpyGuy]

Apehangers may give you some problem with the handling, but I suppose it all depends on what angle you have them set. Putting them on the square tubing as you suggested might be your best bet.

Well, you're being careful and thinking everything through before you do it - that's good. Means you're paying particular attention to detail, which on something like this is very important. Don't think of it as "if it works," think of it as "when it works." What I see happening is that you're making a pretty tricky design, BUT the good thing is, you seem to know what you're doing, and you're confident you can do it. So am I.

 

[Russell ATV]

Apehangers may give you some problem with the handling, but I suppose it all depends on what angle you have them set. Putting them on the square tubing as you suggested might be your best bet.

Well, you're being careful and thinking everything through before you do it - that's good. Means you're paying particular attention to detail, which on something like this is very important. Don't think of it as "if it works," think of it as "when it works." What I see happening is that you're making a pretty tricky design, BUT the good thing is, you seem to know what you're doing, and you're confident you can do it. So am I.

My last mini bike design failed miserably, so you learn while you earn. Last time, my fork/kingpin angle was too step, and the thing was twitchy. In combination with a CVT, the whole bike would "pull up" or "snap" when you gave it gas after coasting. I later found out that this effect was common in motor bikes, and the key reason why automatics have never been successful in this space. Torque shift is a strange feeling on two wheels.

I will weld the steering member to the frame tonight. Even without handle bars, or the engine on it, I should be able to tell how this thing is going to work.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

 

[SpyGuy]

Is 1" conduit pretty decent for a build? I'm planning on doing the mini-pocketbike from the plans, but want to make sure I'm getting the right stuff first.

Looking cool so far ......