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Ah-sweet mystery of life at last I found you!
- Thread starter Poboy kartman
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Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
Drop another letter & you're there
Shows how long it's been, I don't know if I remember how to kisss one.
I cannot mark, but I can seperate them, right? I need nothing but a box to put original coins in 
(together with the table for possible fake coins and scale for.. well scaling)
Well I'll try.
I make three groups A, B and C with four coins each
Best Case scenario
I.a.
balancing A against B is levelled
All coins on the scale go into my box of original coins.
The coin is in the remaining group of four.
II.
balancing three coins of the last group against three coins known to be valid
leave one coin on the table
II.a.
BALANCED scale:
the last coin not in the box, nor on the scale is the fake coin.
III.
balance fake coin against real coin to know if it's lighter or heavier
II.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
I now know if the coin is lighter or heavier. (just say heavier here)
III.
weigh two of the three possible fake coins against each other
the other on the table (rest into the box)
III.a.
BALANCED scale:
the last coin is the fake coin (and I know it's the heavier one)
III.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
the last coin is the heavier one on the scale.
second scenario:
I.b.
balancing A against B is NOT levelled (let's just say A is heavier; if not I change the names A->B & B<-A)
the remaining coins on the table go into my box of original coins.
II.
three coins on both sides of the scale two from group A and one of group B each.
the other two (B-) coins stay on the table.
II.a.
BALANCED scale:
I now know that the fake coin is lighter (since it was a B-coin previously)
and that it is still on the table
III
weigh the coins on the table against each other.. the lighter is fake
II.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
Now it's getting messy.. since I think I need to know if the coins are from the A or the B group originally,
but without a marking that seems rather impossible.
let's assume I do know by laying all A coins face up and all B coins face down...
III.
measure the two formerly A-group coins of the HEAVIER side
lay the B-coin of the other group on the table (rest into the box)
III.a.
BALANCED scale:
the fake coin is the one 'lighter' coin of the formerly B group from the second go.
III.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
the fake coin is the heavier coin on the scale.
If I do not mark the coins in the second process I don't know, I need to think of it some more
'sid
(together with the table for possible fake coins and scale for.. well scaling
)Well I'll try.
I make three groups A, B and C with four coins each
Best Case scenario
I.a.
balancing A against B is levelled
All coins on the scale go into my box of original coins.
The coin is in the remaining group of four.
II.
balancing three coins of the last group against three coins known to be valid
leave one coin on the table
II.a.
BALANCED scale:
the last coin not in the box, nor on the scale is the fake coin.
III.
balance fake coin against real coin to know if it's lighter or heavier
II.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
I now know if the coin is lighter or heavier. (just say heavier here)
III.
weigh two of the three possible fake coins against each other
the other on the table (rest into the box)
III.a.
BALANCED scale:
the last coin is the fake coin (and I know it's the heavier one)
III.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
the last coin is the heavier one on the scale.
second scenario:
I.b.
balancing A against B is NOT levelled (let's just say A is heavier; if not I change the names A->B & B<-A
)the remaining coins on the table go into my box of original coins.
II.
three coins on both sides of the scale two from group A and one of group B each.
the other two (B-) coins stay on the table.
II.a.
BALANCED scale:
I now know that the fake coin is lighter (since it was a B-coin previously)
and that it is still on the table
III
weigh the coins on the table against each other.. the lighter is fake
II.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
Now it's getting messy.. since I think I need to know if the coins are from the A or the B group originally,
but without a marking that seems rather impossible.
let's assume I do know by laying all A coins face up and all B coins face down...
III.
measure the two formerly A-group coins of the HEAVIER side
lay the B-coin of the other group on the table (rest into the box)
III.a.
BALANCED scale:
the fake coin is the one 'lighter' coin of the formerly B group from the second go.
III.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
the fake coin is the heavier coin on the scale.
If I do not mark the coins in the second process I don't know, I need to think of it some more
'sid
#1 open door, put giraffe in, close door.
#2 open door, get giraffe out, put elephant in, close door
#3 the lion king, he's the host.
#4 use the bridge
'sid
[EDIT]
Let's keep the twelve coins.
you get blindfolded and in front of you, there are twelve coins, six facing up, six down.
you cannot tell by feeling them which way is which...
you're given the task to divide the unsorted coins into two groups, each of them has to have the same amount of coins facing up...
what do you do?
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
Only 2 out of 4 right this time. .....
Well.. that's the answers we considered correct when we asked those questions in elementary school
okay, it wasn't a giraffe but a rhino,
it wasn't the lion king but a giraffe, and
it wasn't crocodiles but piranhas (the amazon specifically)
*shrugs*
wait.. if it's an african river, then the crocodiles will be at the conference
'sid
[EDIT]
DOH!!
Dammit.. the elephant is still in the fridge (must read before post... *grmpf*)
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
Trying to delete a multiple post......
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
Well.. that's the answers we considered correct when we asked those questions in elementary school
okay, it wasn't a giraffe but a rhino,
it wasn't the lion king but a giraffe, and
it wasn't crocodiles but piranhas (the amazon specifically)
*shrugs*
wait.. if it's an african river, then the crocodiles will be at the conference
'sid
[EDIT]
DOH!!
Dammit.. the elephant is still in the fridge (must read before post... *grmpf*)
That would make 4 out of 4- How do you forget you have an elephant in the fridge?
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
I cannot mark, but I can seperate them, right? I need nothing but a box to put original coins in
(together with the table for possible fake coins and scale for.. well scaling
Well I'll try.
I make three groups A, B and C with four coins each
Best Case scenario
I.a.
balancing A against B is levelled
All coins on the scale go into my box of original coins.
The coin is in the remaining group of four.
II.
balancing three coins of the last group against three coins known to be valid
leave one coin on the table
II.a.
BALANCED scale:
the last coin not in the box, nor on the scale is the fake coin.
III.
balance fake coin against real coin to know if it's lighter or heavier
II.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
I now know if the coin is lighter or heavier. (just say heavier here)
III.
weigh two of the three possible fake coins against each other
the other on the table (rest into the box)
III.a.
BALANCED scale:
the last coin is the fake coin (and I know it's the heavier one)
III.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
the last coin is the heavier one on the scale.
second scenario:
I.b.
balancing A against B is NOT levelled (let's just say A is heavier; if not I change the names A->B & B<-A
the remaining coins on the table go into my box of original coins.
II.
three coins on both sides of the scale two from group A and one of group B each.
the other two coins stay on the table.
II.a.
BALANCED scale:
I now know that the fake coin is lighter (since it was a B-coin previously)
and that it is still on the table
weigh the coins on the table against each other.. the lighter is fake
II.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
Now it's getting messy.. since I think I need to know if the coins are from the A or the B group originally,
but without a marking that seems rather impossible.
let's assume I do know by laying all A coins face up and all B coins face down...
III.
measure the two formerly A-group coins of the HEAVIER side
lay the B-coin of the other group on the table (rest into the box)
III.a.
BALANCED scale:
the fake coin is the one 'lighter' coin of the formerly B group from the second go.
III.b.
UNBALANCED scale:
the fake coin is the heavier coin on the scale.
If I do not mark the coins in the second process I don't know, I need to think of it some more
'sid
You can't have a box.lol. You don't need one. You don't need "A's" and "B's". You are very close to having this solved. Hell- you may have it solved but I'm going to have to read the last part about another dozen times to make sure I know what you mean.
For instance- you have 12 coins.Put 4 on one side of the scale and 4 on the other side. If they balance you now know you have 8 genuine coins and 4 remaining coins- one of which is counterfeit. Place the 8 in a pile. Take the remaining 4 coins and put 3 on one side of the scale and 1 in front of that side of the scale. Take 3 of the 8 you set aside and put them on the other side of the scale. If the scale balanceses the counterfeit coin is the one in front of the scale. Put it on one side and any other coin on the other. Whether it goes up or down will tell you the weight.
If the scale doesn't balance the side with the coin in front will go up or down. So now you will have 3 coins left and you will know that the counterfeit is either heavy or light.Put all the rest of the coins in the pile.Put one of the 3 in front of the scale and one of each on each side of the scale. If the scale balances the counterfeit is in front of the scale. (You already know if it's heavy or light. ) If the scale doesn't balance, you already know if you are looking for a heavy coin or a light one so the counterfeit should be obvious.
If the first 8 don't balance- the solution should be just as easy to explain as the previous.
No I don't need a box, it could be a line on the table (or just a pile of course) but to picture this, it's easier to have a box
And dividing them into A, B and C is just easier to follow (at least I think so)
And yes, if the first two sets of four coins balance it's easy.. but if not it's not just as easy, since you have twice the amount of coins left (four, one of which counterfeit, as opposed to eight one of which is fake)
you can either weigh B-C and have one additional weighing (which is not allowed by the rules)
Or you have to cope with that.
And that's exactly why I need to turn A face up and B face down to solve it
At this point I personally need a way to mark the coins to solve it..
if you know how to do it WITHOUT, please let me know.
That would make 4 out of 4- How do you forget you have an elephant in the fridge?
Well, I never had those questions in a row before..;
and sometimes you just don't see the elephant in the room
'sid
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
OK- So I got up this morning and solved the unbalanced scale problem and like I said it's simple to do and explain. You don't have to turn coins over or mark them.
So then I go to the refrigerator and lo and behold- when I see the elephant it hits me. I can't believe it took me so long to solve such an easy puzzle.
To separate the 12 coins into 2 groups- errrmmmmn- Take off the blindfold.
So then I go to the refrigerator and lo and behold- when I see the elephant it hits me. I can't believe it took me so long to solve such an easy puzzle.
To separate the 12 coins into 2 groups- errrmmmmn- Take off the blindfold.
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
So I'm sitting here drinking coffee when it DAWNS on me.
The reason sid.is having so much trouble solving the puzzle is that the solution requires thinking " outside the box".
on me.The reason sid.is having so much trouble solving the puzzle is that the solution requires thinking " outside the box".
Hints:
first step: change letters to numbers..
read the first two lines out loud (letter by letter, or digit by digit)
just as a reminder of the "open" questions from previous posts ..
[EDIT]
Oh and no, you cannot remove the blindfold
'sid
OzFab
Well-known member
Yeah, keep going...
danssoslow
Member
Boxen! I have two boxen of doughnuts!!
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
OK- Hmmm, blindfold on.....solution#2....Separate the coins into 2 groups of 6. Stack the coins. Grasp each stack between the thumb and forefingers and turn the stacks sideways on the table. You now have two groups of coins with the same amount of heads up-0.
danssoslow
Member
Clever. If that isn't the requested answer, it most certainly is a correct answer. Fully within the given parameters.
Give this man his chicken dinner!!
Give this man his chicken dinner!!
nice idea..
but no.
it's easier than that.. even if I glue some of the coins to the table,
so that you cannot even move them.. let's say three
'sid
Poboy kartman
Senior Moments Member
I haven't said anything yet, but I've been working on this and I converted to numbers before Sid even said anything about it. I've looked at it backwards forwards, sideways and upside down. I've seen this before and as I recall didn't care much for the puzzle nor the solution. Could be wrong, but I usually remember the ones I like.
I've never heard of the blindfold coin puzzle. I thought I had that solved twice already.
I'm throwing in the towel on both of these. .......
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