Why do people complain about 2 strokes?

[Slash4]

I like 4 strokes more because they are cleaner, require less maintenance and tuning even though they are NOT as simple. Theres lots of reason large machines aren't 2 strokes too.

Look at california's smog and china's industrial environmental pollution. That's why we need rules. I think solar power is the way to go because the energy is already here for FREE. We're not using it. Harnessing it isn't free but I believe it would use the least natural resources and be the most sustainable. It would however inconvenience a lot of people because cars can't go very fast on sun for one example.

There might be a natural cyle to the earth but why make it worse than it is naturally or speed it up?

I don't see the Prius selling point as environmental but a money saver. Its the ONLY midsize $25,000 car I have ever driven (girlfriend's) that could get me a city/highway COMBINED tank mpg avg of 55-60mpg. My girlfriend had one I drove and I can say if I was to spend $25,000+ on a midsize car why not get the one with the best mpg so I spend less on gas? But then again I'm cheap and don't buy cars for style or performance.

 

[the-cyborg]

I like 4 strokes more because they are cleaner, require less maintenance and tuning

Where ever did you get that notion?
Tuning is tuning be it 2 stroke or 4 stroke, once properly tuned a 2 stroke engine will require little to no maintenance where in a 4 stroke you do require regular maintenance such as oil changing.

I have found that the most common issues people have with 2 stroke engines is the lack of knowledge and understanding of 2 stroke engines, carburetor tuning, gas/oil and air/fuel ratios.

Gas/oil ratio will directly effect air/fuel ratio metered threw the carburetor affecting performance.

I personally run a 24:1 ratio in all my 2 stroke engines, be it my weedeater or the West Bend 820's on my kart for the extra lubrication, and believe it or not it adds a little extra compression, and all carburetors correctly tuned for it.

Most common problems that people have is they ether tune too rich end up bogging, and sputtering or too lean and stick a piston.
Two strokes need excess fuel for internal cooling and they need the oil in the fuel for lubrication.
If it's bogging its way too rich, conversely if it's screaming like a mad chainsaw and sounds like it’s going to fly apart, it's on the ragged edge of being too lean, you need to back out on the high speed adjustment just a little till you hear it start to burble just a little and not scream.
You'll end up with a fine tuned engine that screams like a banshee with little smoke and will live a long happy life.

 

[bighead]

I like 4 strokes more because they are cleaner, require less maintenance and tuning even though they are NOT as simple. Theres lots of reason large machines aren't 2 strokes too.

Look at california's smog and china's industrial environmental pollution. That's why we need rules. I think solar power is the way to go because the energy is already here for FREE. We're not using it. Harnessing it isn't free but I believe it would use the least natural resources and be the most sustainable. It would however inconvenience a lot of people because cars can't go very fast on sun for one example.

There might be a natural cyle to the earth but why make it worse than it is naturally or speed it up?

I don't see the Prius selling point as environmental but a money saver. Its the ONLY midsize $25,000 car I have ever driven (girlfriend's) that could get me a city/highway COMBINED tank mpg avg of 55-60mpg. My girlfriend had one I drove and I can say if I was to spend $25,000+ on a midsize car why not get the one with the best mpg so I spend less on gas? But then again I'm cheap and don't buy cars for style or performance.

I think solar power is the way to go because the energy is already here for FREE.

You really think solar is free? It cost more buy the panels then you will ever save over it's life time. You have been suckered friend. Pretty soon you will not have any choices what you want to drive.

Why do you think the goverment is wasting billions on solar energy trying to lower it's panel cost? There is a reason why they are not on every house.

I do not know the details but my parents looked into buying panels. My dad told me it was the huge waste of money if your looking to save money. Again I do not know the details but say it cost 100 grand to panel his house. the amont of time that it would take to save any money was out of a normal person and the panels life time. So he would not buy 100 grand panels to save a few bucks a month.

At this point in time cost effective panels are not even close. Not saying they do not work well and all that. but cost effective is out the window. The left will do what ever they can to make you think different though.

Panels makers are folding like never before. They cannot make a cost effective panel. This drives Obama and the left nuts. This is why you see the 5 billion $ panel bailouts in the news right now. In Oregon this news guy looks into new panels bought by schools and stuff. He proves it's a waste of trying to save any money. The panels will not last long enough for them to return any savings to the buyers. But the warm and fuzzy left sales pitch will sale them to folks still.

About your other part of your post. Sure we need rules. But not stupid far left regulations that drive all the jobs to China. Rules that kill the middle class. Like $5 inhalers bans. Now inhalers are $65 now. The Spotted Owl BS, 55mpg regulations by 2025. You do not think auto makers are striving for best MPG already? How many jobs will this 55mpg regulation kill? See ya truck and vette makers. No big deal we can tow with the chevy volt by 2025 right? Let the people at least sale there own coal on there own land. do not get rid of SUV's by adding regulations than cannot be met just for you do not like them. Lots of people do. Stop making fuel prices rocket with fuel type regulations. And for gods sake lets drill drill drill. We all cannot live in trees.

 

[devino246]

I like 4 strokes more because they are cleaner, require less maintenance and tuning even though they are NOT as simple. Theres lots of reason large machines aren't 2 strokes too.

Look at california's smog and china's industrial environmental pollution. That's why we need rules. I think solar power is the way to go because the energy is already here for FREE. We're not using it. Harnessing it isn't free but I believe it would use the least natural resources and be the most sustainable. It would however inconvenience a lot of people because cars can't go very fast on sun for one example.

There might be a natural cyle to the earth but why make it worse than it is naturally or speed it up?

I don't see the Prius selling point as environmental but a money saver. Its the ONLY midsize $25,000 car I have ever driven (girlfriend's) that could get me a city/highway COMBINED tank mpg avg of 55-60mpg. My girlfriend had one I drove and I can say if I was to spend $25,000+ on a midsize car why not get the one with the best mpg so I spend less on gas? But then again I'm cheap and don't buy cars for style or performance.

Let's look at this mathematically.

Average mileage driven per year is 13,476 (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm)
Prius initial cost: $27,000
Corolla initial cost: $18,000
Prius mileage: 50 combined. (51/48)
Corolla mileage: 30 combined (26/34)
Gas price: $3.60 per gallon

So the Prius costs $9,000 more, BEFORE you factor in interest. You'll be paying more in interest since the Prius costs more, but we'll ignore that.

13,476 miles in a Prius costs you $970.27
13,476 miles in a Corolla costs you $ 1617.12
So a difference of $646.85 per year.

$9,000 difference with a savings of $646.85 per year. It would take you 13.9 years to get your money's worth.

Now, if you somehow magically milked 55-60mpg out of a Prius, we'll calculate it again.

Prius mileage: 58 combined
Corolla mileage: 30 combined

13,476 miles in a Prius costs you $836.44
13,476 miles in a Corolla costs you $ 1617.12
So a difference of $780.68 per year.

So even with your magically acquired mileage, it'll still take you 11.5 years to get your money's worth.

A Prius won't even be working in 11 years! There is no way that the battery packs will last 148,236 miles. And the cost to replace the batteries is outrageous.

 

[bighead]

Let's look at this mathematically.

Average mileage driven per year is 13,476 (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm)
Prius initial cost: $27,000
Corolla initial cost: $18,000
Prius mileage: 50 combined. (51/48)
Corolla mileage: 30 combined (26/34)
Gas price: $3.60 per gallon

So the Prius costs $9,000 more, BEFORE you factor in interest. You'll be paying more in interest since the Prius costs more, but we'll ignore that.

13,476 miles in a Prius costs you $970.27
13,476 miles in a Corolla costs you $ 1617.12
So a difference of $646.85 per year.

$9,000 difference with a savings of $646.85 per year. It would take you 13.9 years to get your money's worth.

Now, if you somehow magically milked 55-60mpg out of a Prius, we'll calculate it again.

Prius mileage: 58 combined
Corolla mileage: 30 combined

13,476 miles in a Prius costs you $836.44
13,476 miles in a Corolla costs you $ 1617.12
So a difference of $780.68 per year.

So even with your magically acquired mileage, it'll still take you 11.5 years to get your money's worth.

A Prius won't even be working in 11 years! There is no way that the battery packs will last 148,236 miles. And the cost to replace the batteries is outrageous.

This is why the government has to step in with tax breaks. If not they would not sale any of them. Look at the Chevy Volt Plant? Closed!!!!!!!

With regualtions we will all be forced to buy these cars and brain washed into thinking it's for the good of the people. People will smile THINKING they got a good deal and are helping.

Again I wonder what an F350 and Vette will look like getting 55mpg?

 

[r_chez_08]

We could just all drive our karts on the road, I expect they would be fairly efficient.
Screw fiats twin air cars, I have a single air kart!

 

[Slash4]

Let's look at this mathematically.

Average mileage driven per year is 13,476 (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/bar8.htm)
Prius initial cost: $27,000
Corolla initial cost: $18,000
Prius mileage: 50 combined. (51/48)
Corolla mileage: 30 combined (26/34)
Gas price: $3.60 per gallon

So the Prius costs $9,000 more, BEFORE you factor in interest. You'll be paying more in interest since the Prius costs more, but we'll ignore that.

13,476 miles in a Prius costs you $970.27
13,476 miles in a Corolla costs you $ 1617.12
So a difference of $646.85 per year.

$9,000 difference with a savings of $646.85 per year. It would take you 13.9 years to get your money's worth.

Now, if you somehow magically milked 55-60mpg out of a Prius, we'll calculate it again.

Prius mileage: 58 combined
Corolla mileage: 30 combined

13,476 miles in a Prius costs you $836.44
13,476 miles in a Corolla costs you $ 1617.12
So a difference of $780.68 per year.

So even with your magically acquired mileage, it'll still take you 11.5 years to get your money's worth.

A Prius won't even be working in 11 years! There is no way that the battery packs will last 148,236 miles. And the cost to replace the batteries is outrageous.

The prius batts life expectancy is 5-7 year and cost to repair/replace is 300-1,000. Yes cheap 4 cylinders even though they get half the mileage are still cheaper over the cost of ownership. Consider though that at some point the gas car will wear faster. The life expectancy of a hyrbid is longer because over say 100,000 miles 50% was on the elctric side and 50% was on the gas side. Unfortunatly all of the cost of ownerships are based on 5 yr new cars not 20yrs so........yes a new base corrolla is about 5,000 cheaper than a new base prius over 5 years.

What I said DOES make sense: if your going to spend 25,000 on a new midsize car why not get the one with the best fuel mileage that meets your needs to save money?

I had 20k to spend on a truck so I bought a loaded 4 cyl stick that meets my needs. I get 27-28 hwy/cty combined tank ave. If I could get a 6 cyl for the same price I wouldnt because it would cost more money in gas and insurance (depreciation and other factors would be about the same).

You think like me though. To save time look on the net for "5 year cost of ownership" on new vehicles, it saves time and is pretty acurate based on region too. Kelley blue book is good. I used to have to calculate taxes, tags, insurance, regional discounts, mpg, maintenance, etc on my own.

 

[jman231994]

I think solar power is the way to go because the energy is already here for FREE.

You really think solar is free? It cost more buy the panels then you will ever save over it's life time. You have been suckered friend. Pretty soon you will not have any choices what you want to drive.

Dunno about who it was that said its free. But over here in Australia it can work out cheaper after a few years. A few government rebates, that are now really minimal , have made it possible for a solar system to pay itself off after a couple of years. Over here you used to get paid really well for the power you put back into the electricity grid too, something like 50c per kW, but now they've changed it and are screwing everyone over when it comes to excess power. But yes, it will pay itself off

 

[Slash4]

Like I said solar energy is free harnessing it is not. It is provided to us by the sun every day for 1,000s of years for free. Unfortunatly we cannot cost effectively do anything with it----yet.

Wind has been privided to us for free too. And in some cases it can cost effectively be harnessed. Water energy has also been provided for free and can sometimes cost effectivley be used with hydroelectric. There is free energy all around us- lightning, body heat, gravity-using it effeciently and cheaply is the challenge.

 

[jman231994]

haha body heat harnessing power suits....wear 50kg of body armour and charge your ipod haha would be classic

 

[fowler]

Ha electric cars are a joke
They will never become popular
Maybe hydrogen but never electric

What is the most corosive thing the everyday household throws away
Battery's
What is making large areas of Japan uninhabitable
Battery's
They claim the battery's will last 5 to 7 years but with that kinda charging and discharging they have worked out 3 to 4 years is closer
So every 4 years the average household will throw out enough battery's to neuk a small feild

I see plenty of old 2 stroke deisel engines running today working as water pumps and generators sure they polluted when they were made and sure they pollute when they run
But how much pollution
Well they have been sitting on the same dam bank for 50 odd years and nothing around them is dead
The parts that were Brocken in that 50 year were recycled
And when the engine finally dies they will be thrown in a furnace and remade into a new engine

I also don't think solar energy is all that flash
A lot of houses around here have it because as human said u can sell the electricity back the the power grid
But very few actually use there own power almost all are remain connected to the main grid because they cant produce enough power to give them selves the quality of life they want

Wind I like because it works good
Physics and weather patterns determine that no matter what at 4pm a roaring gale will rip though called the sea breeze
It is a constant
The local shire does not collect the wind
But every day for 5 hrs 6 wind turbines take 20 % of the load off the grid
Our grid stretches 200 km in all directions and powers a port 3 mines a 500'000 homes

Granted each area has its own power source that will work best

I also don't like how the Prius is so popular
An AMG mercadies is more enviromentally friendly over its lifetime as it is made using recycled materials and runs very clean
A Prius is closer to a range rover for pollution

 

[bighead]

Dunno about who it was that said its free. But over here in Australia it can work out cheaper after a few years. A few government rebates, that are now really minimal , have made it possible for a solar system to pay itself off after a couple of years. Over here you used to get paid really well for the power you put back into the electricity grid too, something like 50c per kW, but now they've changed it and are screwing everyone over when it comes to excess power. But yes, it will pay itself off

How is 75 grand panel going to save you a 75 grand in a few years? So you can make 1/4 million $ is 4 years?

Please explain?

 

[fowler]

you sure its not 75 hundred
still that rediculous
was he quoteing the whole town

http://www.solargain.com.au/

1.5 killowatt system installed for $2200

5 kilowatt system $8490

the us and aussie dollar may as well be equal at the moment
if that is the prices u americans are getting then bankrupcy is likely

we dont make our own panels in large scales anymore as the government stoped rebates for the manufactures
but u wouldnt add more than a grand if they were australian made

the power company buys the solar energy back at close to what u buy it from them
there loads of people who have power bills in the posative
the power company pays them

 

[jman231994]

you sure its not 75 hundred
still that rediculous
was he quoteing the whole town

Did I say 75 grand or was it something else? Its not that expensive haha, the best deal Ive seen is on grays online (online auction place), they have a few different setups, and all up you pay like 1grand more than the auction price i think.

http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001...ma-inverter-comparable-system-34-120?spr=true

That one should go for less than 10 grand or somewhere near that. Pretty darn cheap in the long run. Over $1000 for a 3 month power bill is not overly uncommon in my area. So a few years can easily pay it off, 10kw is a decent amount :arf:

 

[fowler]

What a 1 grand power bill

If mine exeeds $200 I'm pissed

I'm living in a normal sized house with 3 people

Ashamed to say but it's true for most
We make no real effort to save power
Use the air con all thur summer and do on

 

[bighead]

Interesting. US government will give you a $16 grand rebate on a system that cost less than the rebate? IDK something about the numbers is not adding up.

I will say I thought they were much more.

The way I see it is the only reason you see so many panels on government and state buildings is the only place they can waste taxpayers money.

Reagon took the panels off the White House for it was a joke.

 

[fowler]

how much power do u use?

if people are makeing money off 3 kw system then they are making more thean they are useing

but they are not useing and producing during the day

then useing at night

i always thought we lived an energy hungry life
but maybe we got the enviromental word beaten into us at school so much that we do it naturally

it may also be the country
in summer the aircon is running non stop most days but for the rest of the year we dont need heating or cooling beyond a fan or jumper we dont need lights during the day exept in the centre of the house and we dont have a culture of having the biggest appliances u can get

 

[bighead]

From what I just learned it takes about 8 years to make any money. And thats with a $16 grand tax credit. Without the tax break where would panels be? This goes back to the vid I posted on page one.

I will admit they are cheaper than I thought though. When my parents looked into the panels the government was not giving credits like they do today. This explains why my old man back out and said it was dumb.

No wonder the panel companies are folding left and right. Without thetax credit they would not sale any of them. Same with the Chevy Volt that the US government now owns.

 

[fowler]

From what I just learned it takes about 8 years to make any money. And thats with a $16 grand tax credit. Without the tax break where would panels be? This goes back to the vid I posted on page one.

No wonder the panel companies are folding left and right. Without thetax credit they would not sale any of them. Same with the Chevy Volt that the US government now owns.

i think it must be a case of differant situations in each country

i dont beleive climate change is anything but a natual cycle of the eath and that humans may have influenced it but by a single didgit percentage
but i do beleie that renewable energy is the way to go

it may not be destroying the enoviroment but the air quality in the bigger citys is terrible
also i believe all houses should have a water tank
its probs not an issue in the us but here water shortage is massive and we dont have any many rivers to dam so why not catch it before it all ends up in the sea

 

[bighead]

This is 2008. And did his work himself. it will take him 8 years to make any money. And thats with the 16 grand rebate. If not for the rebate how long would it take to make any money? It's a wonder how they sale any of them without Government help.

Also whats the life of a panel? I know they do not last forever.

Not sure if this is right wing or not but very interesting.

New research shows, albeit unintentional, that generating electricity with solar panels can also be a very bad idea. In some cases, producing electricity by solar panels releases more greenhouse gases than producing electricity by gas or even coal.

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/03/the-ugly-side-o.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udUSVdJ2WqY

Life span s about 20 years. So with out tax breaks you could not make anything. Do taxpayers really want to fund this BS?