Wiring Contactor w/switch

[mapoopsie]

Whelp, I can't figure it out. The current flow just doesn't make sense to me. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be ok once I get the right signals coming out of the contactor, but until then, I'm stumped. I've read through FAs posts several times and reviewed the kelly controls diagrams, but I still don't understand. Mainly, it's the black dots on the wiring diagram that are most confusing. So basically, I read the following post:

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40937&highlight=contactor

And I've achieved the picture below. I'm not sure how to wire the switch so it energizes the contactor? Where does the "A2" post go to on the contactor? Maybe I've got it backwards. Also, I think I need to put that 4amp fuse on the other side of the switch so it is stepped down right off the battery. Can I connect a 48volt battery to the switch? If not, how to I wire up a 12volt source from 4 12volt batteries wired in series? Sorry about all the questions...i'm scratching my head. Shout out to FA for all the videos and posts! Very helpful.

 

[itsid]

That'd go to a dedicated ground signal on the controller
(that's what the Questionmark should ideally be connected to)

the Kellycontrollers provide that over the J1 connector IIRC.. but I can't recall on what pin.. you'll need the manual to look it up.
if you controller doesn't have a dedicated ground signal for the contactor,
then any solid ground will have to do.

Kellycontrollers also have a 12V line (well most have or offer an optional 12V line...)
BUT if you stacked 12V batteries as you said..
than tapping into the line after the very first battery (the one that has the ground wire to the electronics)
you will get a 12V output..
just don't drain much amps from there to not overstress that single battery..
for a contactor signal you should be fine... (BUT NO LIGHTS!!)


'sid

 

[mapoopsie]

Thanks for the reply. So I'm getting closer. I drew up another diagram just showing the current from the batteries through the contactor and to the controller. There's a "Switch" wire on the controller and I assume that must be attached somewhere to allow the battery power to feed the controller. I've also attached the wiring labels for the controller if that helps.

 

[itsid]

Yes your drawn contactor wiring looks good to me.
Now with the manufacturers connectors though,
I'd take the 12V from the brake line (which according to the document is 12V)

The Power switch wire needs -as depicted in the diagram- a key switch nothing else...
unfortunately the diagram is a bit on the crappy side
(showing a two wire switch and a one wire terminal on the controller)

usually that thing connects VCC to the +48V from the batpack..
and in a one wire setup like yours, that indeed has to be wired to the batpack
(ideally behind the contactor, if you take the 12V from the brake line however directly on the batteries though)

keep in mind that the conenction must NOT be permanent but toggled.
if you leave it connected while removing the battery you can inadvertently destroy all accessories (and even the controller itself)

I haven't seen the internals of such controller yet.. so I cannot be sure I'm afraid
it's more "hearsay" advice that luckily matches the diagram you attached

'sid

 

[mapoopsie]

I think I understand what to do with the switch lead from the controller and have updated the diagram accordingly. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying I should do with the 12v brake lead. What are you intending that 12v brake line to be used for? I assume it's only powered when the switch lead from the controller is powered.

 

[itsid]

NOOO!!

the switch lead needs 48V not 12V ...

'sid

 

[mapoopsie]

Ah. I see now. I've got two steps to power on the system. Step one turns power to the controller and step two provides full amperage to the controller. Assume that keyed switch in step 1 must be capable of 48v and the step 2 switch can be a regular 12v switch. Attached another diagram.

 

[itsid]

Yes that's the idea..
but again.. I don't know how the controller looks on the inside..
so this might or might not work.

If you have a multimeter, you can quickly test that though.
Wire up just the power switch to the battery.. (well and ground of course)
and check if you get a 12V signal on the brake line already.
if you do we're golden,
if not the contactor engagement switch needs to go back to the battery (as in post#3)

Oh and that push-switch needs to be latching..
a momentary switch will NOT work, just so you're aware

'sid

 

[mapoopsie]

Thanks Sid. I've got a multi meter, so when I get this hooked up this weekend, I'll check the brake lead for 12v. Appreciate the quick feedback.

 

[mapoopsie]

Whelp. I didn't have 12v on that High Voltage Brake switch. I didn't have any voltage. I did have 5 volts on the Low Voltage Brake Wire, but I'm not sure that's enough to work the switch to the contactor. So, I suppose I can just take 12 volts off the first positive battery lead. Hopefully, I'll have a running motor tomorrow!

 

[itsid]

the brake switch shouldn't have 12V..

the switch toggles ground for the brake LIGHT
(and the brake light plug should have 12V but no ground ..)

But chances are the power via VCC isn't even reaching
the brake assembly without the contactor being engaged.
Don't worry.. you can indeed just grab the 12V directly from the battery as before instead.

'sid

PS I can't see what the contactor 'asks for' as a control voltage, should be in the docs
(sometimes even labelled on the contactor itself)..
but if 12V do not suffice, just go up one battery at a time until it reacts.

 

[Functional Artist]

Whelp, I can't figure it out. The current flow just doesn't make sense to me. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be ok once I get the right signals coming out of the contactor, but until then, I'm stumped. I've read through FAs posts several times and reviewed the kelly controls diagrams, but I still don't understand. Mainly, it's the black dots on the wiring diagram that are most confusing. So basically, I read the following post:

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=40937&highlight=contactor

And I've achieved the picture below. I'm not sure how to wire the switch so it energizes the contactor? Where does the "A2" post go to on the contactor? Maybe I've got it backwards. Also, I think I need to put that 4amp fuse on the other side of the switch so it is stepped down right off the battery. Can I connect a 48volt battery to the switch? If not, how to I wire up a 12volt source from 4 12volt batteries wired in series? Sorry about all the questions...i'm scratching my head. Shout out to FA for all the videos and posts! Very helpful.

Thanks, just tryin' to help

If I'm reading this "correctly"
...& my eyes are seein" "correctly"

It looks like you got a 48V contactor, for your 48V system
...which means it will NOT function (switch "on" to make the "big switch" in side activate) unless ~48V is applied (low V cut-off for a 48V system ~42V)

So, what is all this 12V discussion about?

 

[mapoopsie]

Thanks, just tryin' to help

If I'm reading this "correctly"
...& my eyes are seein" "correctly"

It looks like you got a 48V contactor, for your 48V system
...which means it will NOT function (switch "on" to make the "big switch" in side activate) unless ~48V is applied (low V cut-off for a 48V system ~42V)

So, what is all this 12V discussion about?

This may be the problem I'm experiencing right now, FA! And...I was starting to think the same thing when I read the "48v" label on the contactor. When i try to power the contactor off of the "first" battery with effectively 12volts, I blow fuses (only tried up to 10amps since the spark kept getting bigger!). So, you're saying I can just run a second fused switch off of the 4th battery lead (effectively 48v now) to the latching push button switch?

 

[Functional Artist]

This may be the problem I'm experiencing right now, FA! And...I was starting to think the same thing when I read the "48v" label on the contactor. When i try to power the contactor off of the "first" battery with effectively 12volts, I blow fuses (only tried up to 10amps since the spark kept getting bigger!). So, you're saying I can just run a second fused switch off of the 4th battery lead (effectively 48v now) to the latching push button switch?

Yes, a 48VDC component (contactor) should only function within it's specific voltage range (48V = ~42V - ~54V)

Spark kept getting bigger
...blowing fuses @ 12V?

Um...NOT good

PLEASE wait for advise from Sid before proceeding

 

[mapoopsie]

Yeah. Sparking on the 48v side now too. Something isn't right. Does A2 from the switched side of the contactor go to negative battery?

 

[Functional Artist]

Yeah. Sparking on the 48v side now too. Something isn't right. Does A2 from the switched side of the contactor go to negative battery?

It looks like you may have the same 48V contactor (from Kelly Controls) as I have on El Moto
...if so, you may be trying to connect the small power wires backwards

Below is a diagram of how I have the contactor connected on my bike

* Notice, the precharge resistor can be installed either way/direction
...but, the diode needs to be positioned correctly

 

[mapoopsie]

Thanks FA. Just not clear where the green wire comes from and where the red wire goes on your contactor drawing. Attaching a couple pics of my current set up.

 

[Functional Artist]

Here is how mine is set up (also see diagram below)

On my system, a small yellow wire (~22g.) supplies 48V positive (+) thru a 5A fuse, directly from the bat pack to my On/Off switch
(this allows the operator (me) to manually switch the system on & off)

Then, it splits (see small red wire) to provide 48V positive (+) to the controller (J2-1 pin)
…& also, to the positive (+) side, of the "switching" portion, of the contactor (small bolts)
(this is supplied via another small red wire)

The small green wire (~22g.) provides the negative (-) from the controller (J1-3 pin) to the contactor to complete the (48V) circuit
(this allows the controller to electronically switch the system off, if it deems necessary)

 

[mapoopsie]

It looks like maybe i've got my wires on the A1 and A2 terminals on the Contactor backwards according to your drawing (my diode is correctly oriented). So you have ground coming off the A1 terminal on the contactor (where as I had the 48v switched power on A1). You can see that the small (16awg) black wire going off the right of the contactor is the negative and I'm now seeing that that may be incorrect. So then if I switch the A1 and A2 around I can still run the battery negative to a terminal where the A1 negative of the contactor AND the controller battery negative are together (essentially three negative wires (contactor, controller, battery).

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------

That worked! Thanks FA!

 

[Functional Artist]

It looks like maybe i've got my wires on the A1 and A2 terminals on the Contactor backwards according to your drawing (my diode is correctly oriented). So you have ground coming off the A1 terminal on the contactor (where as I had the 48v switched power on A1). You can see that the small (16awg) black wire going off the right of the contactor is the negative and I'm now seeing that that may be incorrect. So then if I switch the A1 and A2 around I can still run the battery negative to a terminal where the A1 negative of the contactor AND the controller battery negative are together (essentially three negative wires (contactor, controller, battery).

Yes, it looks like switchin' the A1 & A2 connections would correct the situation

Lookin' at your wiring labels pic
...your situation/set up looks kinda different

Do you have or can get an actual wiring diagram for your specific set up?
...because, I don't see any provisions for connecting a contactor
(a personal addition?)

From the wiring labels pic, it looks like the "Power wire" connects to the battery packs positive (+) terminal
…& the "Power section negative" connects to the battery packs negative (-) terminal
…& connecting the (3) negatives (-) seems OK
...but, I'd like to see an actual diagram to be sure