Why not?

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Spoonman

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OK so i have a 36v 700w 2500 rpm electric motor and i dont want PHAT EXPENSIVE batteries on my modified wagon/go-kart, so i wired (4) 9v batteries in a series and (8) 9v batteries in parrallel for extra Ah when the 9v run out of charge. and the motor runs with the 4 9v battery pack.

my first question is: is there a way to attach the parrallel battery pack to the series battery pack so that i dont have to change them out when they are used up.

my second question is why has nobody ever done this? i realise that the batteries will be discharged quickly but they can be recharged (a method for recharging is still in the works, i was thinking charging with a low amp high voltage charger attached to all the batteries in series but that also seems problematic...

...also do you think the batteries may explode for any reason?

Thank all of you!
 

Spoonman

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(AH) MY BAD! xD the small blocky 9v alkaline batteries

 

Spoonman

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on the contrary! my motor deffinately runs with the battery pack in series that i created, it may not be optimal by any means but it has enough power to putt-putt me along to where i need to go.

if anyone can answer my first and last question it would be greatly appreciated! :)
 

Doc Sprocket

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So- to elaborate for the skeptics (such as myself)- how big and heavy is your kart, what do you weigh, how fast will it go, and for how long can you run at full bore before the batteries die? Pics and vid would be lovely.

Regarding battery explosion- perhaps if you are trying to recharge non-rechargeable batteries or using the wrong method.

As for the series-parallel question- I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you not use a DPDT switch?
 

devino246

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on the contrary! my motor deffinately runs with the battery pack in series that i created, it may not be optimal by any means but it has enough power to putt-putt me along to where i need to go.

if anyone can answer my first and last question it would be greatly appreciated! :)

please elaborate? it does run after all, im not sure of the rpms but its pretty decent, my motor is rated for 2500 rpms.

Thank you.

Put a load on it and you'll see. I very highly doubt that the batteries will even supply enough current to move a kart.
 

devino246

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To elaborate further,

According to an Energizer rep, a 9V Energizer Max battery will produce 625 mAh under a 25 mA load. Your motor is 19.4A @ 36V. The batteries don't stand a chance in he// of producing the proper amount of current, much less lasting any amount of time.

There's a reason automotive, marine, etc. batteries are so large. Batteries store chemical energy, to be converted to electrical energy. A handfull of 9V batteries isn't going to power anything more than a remote.

Also, attempting to recharge an alkaline battery is a bad idea.
 

fowler

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Not going to happen

No where nere enough current

In a very basic explanation
The size of your battery determines the amount of current

Look up monster garage tool battery car

They made a car using tool battery's ( which are superior in every way)
Look at the amount they required to operate the car

Also charging those 9v batts can't be done
 

landuse

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There is no way in he// that's going to work.

I'm sorry, but I did get a laugh out of this thread. It brightened my day.

I would also like to see a vid of this kart running, and for how long

Spoonman - we are not saying that you are lying, we are just saying that we don't believe it can be done. Prove us wrong!
 

Spoonman

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So- to elaborate for the skeptics (such as myself)- how big and heavy is your kart, what do you weigh, how fast will it go, and for how long can you run at full bore before the batteries die? Pics and vid would be lovely.

Regarding battery explosion- perhaps if you are trying to recharge non-rechargeable batteries or using the wrong method.

As for the series-parallel question- I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you not use a DPDT switch?

Thank you for your insight.. yes a DPDT switch is acceptable, I realised that question was misguided. As for my "kart" it only weighs about 40 pounds. I weigh 125 I'm hoping for 15 mph and expect my battery packs to last 30 minutes at most on a full charge.

Just to clarify i am searching for additional motors to reach my desired speed, I think if I get 1 motor for each wheel I can power this thing with 9v batteries & how neat would that be? To not have to lug around 30+ pounds of batteries, and at the very least I could carry some 36v-9v battery packs ontop of 30 lbs of huge batteries just incase I become stranded somehow so I could switch to my pocket sized 36v pack

Any comments on this using 18v Li powertool batteries instead? Because that could also be a good alternative to the easily overheated 9v batteries.
 

exenos

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That's a much better alternative, better power/weight density ( probably), cheaper (only need 2 or three to match all your nine volts), less to go wrong and easier to charge.
 

Doc Sprocket

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Since you mention the power tools-

Years ago, I scored a Power Wheels Chevy Z71 pickup for my kids. The battery was history. Since I'm cheap- LOL

I Rewired the system, and built a little box to hold a DeWalt 18V cordless drill battery. Worked well. The kids could drive the snot out of it for 20-30 mins, just about as much time as it took to charge the next battery. They'd go all day on that thing!
 
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Spoonman

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what a lovely memory :') that is exactly what im imagining, except with a few more motors and a few more 18v batteries!

NOW DO YALL BELIEVE? XD ITS GONNA BE SO AWESOME. pics & vid not for a long time... but it will come... >:)
 

Doc Sprocket

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Before we get TOO excited here, let's keep in mind that what I did boils down to a little kid riding a little plastic toy. Under 100lbs combined and perhaps 5MPH.
 

BarelyAWake

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OK so i have a 36v 700w 2500 rpm electric motor and i dont want PHAT EXPENSIVE batteries

...also do you think the batteries may explode for any reason?

Thank all of you!

First, I fully understand and respect the fact you're not looking for maximum preformance, I too love to tinker just to see what I can get myself into & I am not recommending you go out and spend a ton on some fancy-pants batteries that cost eleventy-billion dollars each, in fact I'm not even recommending against anything you've asked about... but I did wish to mention the absolute number one reason folks find tinkerin' with electric vehicles disappointing is the choice made to scrimp on batteries.

Unlike most vehicles where if you're looking for preformance, you concentrate on the engine - electrics are a bit different in that while the motor isn't unimportant (and yours is quite respectable), the batteries are the deal breaker... much like a Chevy V8 won't run very well or for very long if fed by a teaspoon sized tank through a pinhole.

Cordless power tool batteries are actually a bit of a rip-off, unless you've "free" ones kicking around, I wouldn't recommend buying any for this project. While they seem far less expensive than the lithium or LiFePO4 battery packs usually chosen for electric vehicles, it's only because you're getting a fraction of the the capabilities & paying a lot more for that fraction...

As an example, the following is based on two of the least expensive no-name 18v replacement tool batteries I could find (in a quick search);

18V NI-CD Replacement Battery for DEWALT (cloned/generic) $39.89ea x2 = $79.78 (S&H not inc)

18v 2000mah x2 = 36v 4000mah = 4ah
http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/charge/mah-to-ah.htm

36v @ 700w = 19.4a
http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Watt_to_Amp_Calculator.htm

time of operation @ max = 0.2hr

...but you will not get that result as you won't be able to achieve maximum operation as cordless power tool batteries are unable to supply the required amperage, a typical DeWalt drill needs 2.6 amps no-load so you'll get a much, much lower achievable RPM under load/speed & there's the slight possibility of damage to the cells as you're essentially "shorting" them w/such an amp demand.

Compared to;

36V 10AH LiFePO4 Battery Pack $318.00

time of operation @ max = 0.5hr

....only this time you will be able to achieve maximum operation @ full amperage for the duration.

Which granted, seems like a lot but to get a similar amperage and capacity from the above tool batteries, you'd need at least five of them for a total of $199.45...

So, $199.45 to be able to use your motor to it's potential with cordless tool batteries, or $318.00 for a LiFePO4 pack... but I'll mention Ni–Cd is only good for 500 full recharge cycles, whereas LiFePO4 can exceed 2000 charge cycles - so if there were long term usage goals, to meet or exceed the $318 LiFePO4 pack with these Ni–Cd cordless tool batteries, it would cost something like $797.80...

Yea... and that's the problem with electric vehicles lol, much as I love 'em any way you slice it that's a lot of pennies to cough up for a whopping 0.93hp for maybe a 1/2hr of use (10ah/20a);
http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/watt-to-hp.htm

BTW, LiFePO4 is significantly more expensive than Lithium, but I didn't use Lithium packs for the example as they're chemically & thermally unstable - the potential for fire isn't worth making the math seem more impressive, they're good and all but some experience is defo recommended.



While they're comparatively heavy & don't have the cycle life - for what you seem to want from this project Id' reco something like these basic SLA scooter batteries (or larger) as they're really inexpensive, still pretty small, safe, very easy to use, charge and can supply the amperage you need;

12V 5Ah SLA $14.98ea x3 = 36v 15ah for $44.94 total (free S&H) - all that for the cost of just one cordless tool battery ;)
 
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