Welding Question
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raposak
2012 Build-Off Winner
It all depends on what you want to weld. My take on it is you buy the biggest welder you can afford. I personally have and like the Lincoln 3200HD from Lowes. Its 135 amps and has welded just about everything I needed it to.
smooth90
New member
My first welder was a Craftsman 85amp flux core wire welder. It was well built and fun to learn on but it has its pros and cons.
Flux core wire welder
Pros
Can weld outdoors in the wind (other welders shielding gas blows away)
No shielding gas, self contained in the wire
Cheap in comparison to using shielding gas
Cons
First a flux core welder makes *lots* of white smoke. You really don't want to breath the fumes because in the long run its well very risky (health wise). This also makes it almost impossible to weld indoors unless you have a fume extraction system.
There is slag that you have to brush off the weld after your finished. I hated doing this but found that a little Dewalt angle grinder with a wire wheel would take the slag off instantly.
Weld spatter
Cannot go back over a weld without thoroughly cleaning it or you risk contaminating the weld with slag.
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My recommendation would be to spend a little bit more over a harbor freight machine and get a Lincoln at Homedepot.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
That machine is expensive I know but it has a 5 star rating 9 reviews, and you can always return it to the nearest Homedepot if you are not satisfied.
The selling point for me would be the fact that it comes with a gas regulator to use shielding gas (argon/co2 tank). The cheaper welders can ONLY use flux core wire while this machine is capable of doing both out of the box. So you could do flux core to start and learn then switch to shielded to do better nicer welds in the future.
It says your located in Georgia so shielding gas should not be that hard to come by. In the future if you wanted to upgrade to shielding gas a small 80 cubic foot tank would run about $150 - 200 and a refill about $25 - $40. This size tank would last for hours of welding.
Benefits of shielded MIG welding
No slag shiny welds, better weld quality, easier to work with, little fumes or smoke, can go over welds immediately.
Cons
More expensive, hard to weld in the wind, must have gas to weld
No matter what you choose don't skimp and buy a crappy helmet the $60 to $100 for a decent auto darkening helmet will be the difference between night and day!
I got this one on black Friday for $59.99 and so far its one of the best additions I've made to my welding equipment.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/metal-man-reg-auto-darkening-welding-helmet-9-13-variable-shade-3004655
Its up to you what you choose but I would seriously recommend that Lincoln from Homedepot. No actually I would recommend the welder I have
http://store.cyberweld.com/mitigwed...=2530&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=6d6974696777656469313830
That's some serious welding right there.....steel....stainless.....aluminum imo I think TIG welding is the best. The selling point for this was obviously the included TIG Welding for Dummies book!
Hope this helps!
Flux core wire welder
Pros
Can weld outdoors in the wind (other welders shielding gas blows away)
No shielding gas, self contained in the wire
Cheap in comparison to using shielding gas
Cons
First a flux core welder makes *lots* of white smoke. You really don't want to breath the fumes because in the long run its well very risky (health wise). This also makes it almost impossible to weld indoors unless you have a fume extraction system.
There is slag that you have to brush off the weld after your finished. I hated doing this but found that a little Dewalt angle grinder with a wire wheel would take the slag off instantly.
Weld spatter
Cannot go back over a weld without thoroughly cleaning it or you risk contaminating the weld with slag.
************************
My recommendation would be to spend a little bit more over a harbor freight machine and get a Lincoln at Homedepot.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
That machine is expensive I know but it has a 5 star rating 9 reviews, and you can always return it to the nearest Homedepot if you are not satisfied.
The selling point for me would be the fact that it comes with a gas regulator to use shielding gas (argon/co2 tank). The cheaper welders can ONLY use flux core wire while this machine is capable of doing both out of the box. So you could do flux core to start and learn then switch to shielded to do better nicer welds in the future.
It says your located in Georgia so shielding gas should not be that hard to come by. In the future if you wanted to upgrade to shielding gas a small 80 cubic foot tank would run about $150 - 200 and a refill about $25 - $40. This size tank would last for hours of welding.
Benefits of shielded MIG welding
No slag shiny welds, better weld quality, easier to work with, little fumes or smoke, can go over welds immediately.
Cons
More expensive, hard to weld in the wind, must have gas to weld
No matter what you choose don't skimp and buy a crappy helmet the $60 to $100 for a decent auto darkening helmet will be the difference between night and day!
I got this one on black Friday for $59.99 and so far its one of the best additions I've made to my welding equipment.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/metal-man-reg-auto-darkening-welding-helmet-9-13-variable-shade-3004655
Its up to you what you choose but I would seriously recommend that Lincoln from Homedepot. No actually I would recommend the welder I have
http://store.cyberweld.com/mitigwed...=2530&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=6d6974696777656469313830
That's some serious welding right there.....steel....stainless.....aluminum imo I think TIG welding is the best. The selling point for this was obviously the included TIG Welding for Dummies book!
Hope this helps!
r97
Measure twice cut once
I vote for a name brand machine. Check craigslist for use welders, you can often get a nice welder pretty cheap (put up a wanted add). If you want a new welder, these are the machines I think give you the most for your money. (not that all of these can use 10lb wire spools, unlike the harbor freight)
456 of 459 people would recommend this welder to a friend! This welder is an excellent machine!
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200306073_200306073
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200447703_200447703
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200434915_200434915
TIG welders are great if you have, time, skill and money for one, but if you are just building a go kart, or mini bike it is really a lot more than you need. You can build just about anything you want with a good MIG welder.
_____________________________________________________________
At this point I have owned 2 welders,
My first welder was this, It was a great little machine and I could have easily kept it and completed most all of my projects, but MIG welding and more power was just too tempting. I sold this welder for $150 after 1 yr, not bad.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200434915_200434915
My second, and current welder is a Hobart Handler 210Amp MIG welder w/ spool gun, yes it's severe overkill for most of the projects I want to do, but its nice to know I will never be held back by the limitations of my welder. Easily welds 1/4" in a single pass (I'm sure I could do more) , and is capable of steel, stainless steel, and aluminum.
EDIT: Harbor Freight engines work, and are cheep, but I think you could do much better quality wise. If you want I can give you some suggestions later, but I really don't feel like typing all that up and finding a bunch of links at the moment.
456 of 459 people would recommend this welder to a friend! This welder is an excellent machine!
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200306073_200306073
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200447703_200447703
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200434915_200434915
TIG welders are great if you have, time, skill and money for one, but if you are just building a go kart, or mini bike it is really a lot more than you need. You can build just about anything you want with a good MIG welder.
_____________________________________________________________
At this point I have owned 2 welders,
My first welder was this, It was a great little machine and I could have easily kept it and completed most all of my projects, but MIG welding and more power was just too tempting. I sold this welder for $150 after 1 yr, not bad.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200434915_200434915
My second, and current welder is a Hobart Handler 210Amp MIG welder w/ spool gun, yes it's severe overkill for most of the projects I want to do, but its nice to know I will never be held back by the limitations of my welder. Easily welds 1/4" in a single pass (I'm sure I could do more) , and is capable of steel, stainless steel, and aluminum.
EDIT: Harbor Freight engines work, and are cheep, but I think you could do much better quality wise. If you want I can give you some suggestions later, but I really don't feel like typing all that up and finding a bunch of links at the moment.
thanks for going all into detail i really appreciate that
Ghanem
Member
I have like this 40amp welder it works good, it's also made in italy
Doc Sprocket
*********
I'm totally on board with Smooth90 and R97, but I'd like to add a couple of things. (For the purpose of my explanation, FCAW=Fluxcore and GMAW=Gas/MIG
* As you do more welding, GMAW gets cheaper and FCAW gets more expensive. A spool of Innershield can easily cost 3x as much as the same size spool of MIG wire, whereas, once you have the gas bottle, the refills aren't too pricey.
* I have found FCAW to be much more tolerant of steel that is not entirely clean. It certainly is good practise, if not "mandatory" to thoroughly prep the steel before welding, but that's in an ideal world. I welded in the field for years, and it's not always feasible.
* Every convertible machine I have ever used is capable of welding thicker steel in FCAW mode than in GMAW mode. I'll be honest, I don't know why. But it's true. You do not need as powerful a machine to weld 1/4" plate in FCAW as you would to do the same thickness in GMAW.
*If your budget or lack of good used deals forced you to buy an off-brand machine, DO purchase name brand FCAW wire. I have used the cheap spit (more than one brand) and horrible wire is a lousy way to learn how to weld. How do you know if a bad weld is your fault?
* As you do more welding, GMAW gets cheaper and FCAW gets more expensive. A spool of Innershield can easily cost 3x as much as the same size spool of MIG wire, whereas, once you have the gas bottle, the refills aren't too pricey.
* I have found FCAW to be much more tolerant of steel that is not entirely clean. It certainly is good practise, if not "mandatory" to thoroughly prep the steel before welding, but that's in an ideal world. I welded in the field for years, and it's not always feasible.
* Every convertible machine I have ever used is capable of welding thicker steel in FCAW mode than in GMAW mode. I'll be honest, I don't know why. But it's true. You do not need as powerful a machine to weld 1/4" plate in FCAW as you would to do the same thickness in GMAW.
*If your budget or lack of good used deals forced you to buy an off-brand machine, DO purchase name brand FCAW wire. I have used the cheap spit (more than one brand) and horrible wire is a lousy way to learn how to weld. How do you know if a bad weld is your fault?
frankysfree
New member
Definitely get a name brand machine.
For beginner go with maybe a miller 180 mig. The new ones are one dial operation. You look up in the book, set your dial, then have at it. It can be fine tuned to your liking as well.
For experienced welder, gotta have the miller synchrowave 250 TIG. That's what I use and although it's slower than welding with mig, the quality of welds is far superior.
For beginner go with maybe a miller 180 mig. The new ones are one dial operation. You look up in the book, set your dial, then have at it. It can be fine tuned to your liking as well.
For experienced welder, gotta have the miller synchrowave 250 TIG. That's what I use and although it's slower than welding with mig, the quality of welds is far superior.
Keegan
New member
My 2 cents. For a beginning welder, which I'm assuming you are, it's my suggestion you purchase a used MIG welder. Get one that can run either flux core or gas. I'm partial to Miller products (Miller owns and makes Hobart welders as well) because of the excellent service and support if you should ever need parts or repairs. That being said, I still use my old Century wire feed welder on a regular basis. It's a 110v machine that runs either 90 or 100 amps flux or gas. I purchased it used about 10 years ago for $175 and I'm sure I could sell it for at least that much today.
If you really want to learn about welding, go get yourself a Oxy-Acetylene kit. Most good kits (Smith or Victor to name a couple brands) will have a few welding tips and at least one heating and cutting tip. Now you've got a tool with a hundred uses, from welding to brazing and cutting as well as heating and forming and bending. There's something really cool about the first time you watch fire melt steel. I see torch sets all the time on craigslist for hundreds less than new, and they pretty much last forever.
But... the oxy-acetylene has a longer learning curve compared to wire-feed. So if you want to hit the ground running, I'd still stick with the the used MIG, make sure the ground clamp is really good and set the machine good and hot. Most MIG welds you see are done too cold. Good luck
If you really want to learn about welding, go get yourself a Oxy-Acetylene kit. Most good kits (Smith or Victor to name a couple brands) will have a few welding tips and at least one heating and cutting tip. Now you've got a tool with a hundred uses, from welding to brazing and cutting as well as heating and forming and bending. There's something really cool about the first time you watch fire melt steel. I see torch sets all the time on craigslist for hundreds less than new, and they pretty much last forever.
But... the oxy-acetylene has a longer learning curve compared to wire-feed. So if you want to hit the ground running, I'd still stick with the the used MIG, make sure the ground clamp is really good and set the machine good and hot. Most MIG welds you see are done too cold. Good luck
karl
Well-known member
One more thing, harbor freight mig welders are garbage, if I were to buy on at harbor freight it would be arc because they are so simple that they are very hard to break. Im not a fan of MIG welders. Its easy to make a strong, good looking weld with stick. Its almost as easy as MIG once you get used to striking an arc. My stick welder is below, I paid $20 for it used and it works great. Surf craigslist and you can find a pretty good used one. You can get a good Lincoln tombstone welder for under $150. They are bulletproof, 225 volt, and plenty powerful for anything you will encounter on a go kart. And the name for stick welding is SMAW, shielded metal arc welding.
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Doc Sprocket
*********
Actually, the output amperage of the classic tombstone is 225. The voltage is 220- and the problem is that not a lot of budding DIYers have 220 volts out in the shop, garage, or driveway. A better choice under the circumstances would be a low voltage machine you can plug in nearly anywhere. Most of these machines have sufficient output for kart duty, anyhow.
devino246
Official DIYGK Chem Nerd
SMAW welding is very tricky to get a nice looking weld on round tube. It's also difficult to weld overhead. For a beginner, FCAW/GMAW is the best choice, IMO.
Aladinbama
Just Learning
Just wondering if something like this might make for a good start?
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200403263_200403263
I'm mechanical as heck, handy with many kinds/types of tools, and frequently fabricate necessary parts and peices for projects out of wood, plastic, steel or aluminum. I'm never going to become a professional welder, but I would like to put together a go kart or two (or maybe three : ) ). I also have a small "putzing around" budget.
Right now, I'm "collecting" information about welding - don't really want to get too complicated, but would like to be able to assemble/fix things. Thanks, Tom
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200403263_200403263
I'm mechanical as heck, handy with many kinds/types of tools, and frequently fabricate necessary parts and peices for projects out of wood, plastic, steel or aluminum. I'm never going to become a professional welder, but I would like to put together a go kart or two (or maybe three : ) ). I also have a small "putzing around" budget.
Right now, I'm "collecting" information about welding - don't really want to get too complicated, but would like to be able to assemble/fix things. Thanks, Tom
devino246
Official DIYGK Chem Nerd
My friend bought that welder a year or two ago. I used it a couple of times and liked the way it welded. Keep in mind that you could find a similar name-brand welder second hand for about the same price.
Jake.B
New member
I dont know much about brands except a flux core is cheaper than a mig with gas, Because a spool of flux core is like 90 dollars as where a a welder with gas spool is about thirty.
frankysfree
New member
If going with a budget welder go with a Hobart from northern tool. They are made by, i believe, Miller and ive known quite a few people who had them with ZERO problems.
Doc Sprocket
*********
To the best of my knowledge, Hobart is Hobart and nobody else. Perhaps Northern just has a very good price on them. Either way, they are a major player, and you won't go wrong with one.
r97
Measure twice cut once
Hobart and Miller are both owned by the same company (Illinois Tool Works). Neither one owns the other, but since both were brought together Hobart has headed more towards DIY people, and miller more towards industrial/professional. That said don't think Hobart is bad because its not better than Miller, Hobart is (IMO) the best bang for your buck if you are a DIY person or a professional fabricator. Hobart has an excellent reputation for quality, and customer service. Any problems are easily resolved on their extremely active forum, or with the aid of the 5-3-1 warranty (5yr on transformer, 3yr on the circuit boards, and 1yr on the gun).
If you have a little more money, you could move to a Lincoln, but I personally don't see a significant advantage to that (Don't get me wrong, My little Lincoln was a great machine, shouldn't have sold it...). If you have a lot more money you could move up to a Miller, but for DIY use, not worth the money to me (Once again a Miller is a great machine, but a bit overkill for our use).
Toystory is right, Northern Tool is only a retail outlet that sells Hobart welders (at good prices too!), they don't make Hobart welders. (Although I don't think franky meant to make it sound that way.)
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/hobart-mig-welder.html
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_welding+wirefeed-welding+wirefeed-welders+hobart_0_0_P-Price?
I spoiled myself and bought one of Hobart's larger welders (I was broke for a while after that.....), but I am glad I did! The machine is sure to be an extremely useful and reliable tool, Welding 1/4" steel without flinching and having aluminum capabilities are certainly a plus too!
If you have a little more money, you could move to a Lincoln, but I personally don't see a significant advantage to that (Don't get me wrong, My little Lincoln was a great machine, shouldn't have sold it...). If you have a lot more money you could move up to a Miller, but for DIY use, not worth the money to me (Once again a Miller is a great machine, but a bit overkill for our use).
Toystory is right, Northern Tool is only a retail outlet that sells Hobart welders (at good prices too!), they don't make Hobart welders. (Although I don't think franky meant to make it sound that way.)
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/hobart-mig-welder.html
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_welding+wirefeed-welding+wirefeed-welders+hobart_0_0_P-Price?
I spoiled myself and bought one of Hobart's larger welders (I was broke for a while after that.....), but I am glad I did! The machine is sure to be an extremely useful and reliable tool, Welding 1/4" steel without flinching and having aluminum capabilities are certainly a plus too!
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