Wanna build an electric Batpod (Batmans bike)

[Meathead316]

Thanks for showing an interest in my thread and taking the time to reply with advice and constructive critisism

I have no experience whatsoever in making any type of vehicle... but ive been building stuff my whole life and can kinda turn my hand to building anything, ive built costumes with moving parts (ironman) a working airsoft minigun and a full scale termintor endo skeleton (budget build out of cardboard but its still immense!) so this is just wanting to try something new i guess. I dont have specialist tools or equipment other than what most blokes have in their garage

I may end up making it out of metal, I will have a tinker in cardboard first, then wood, then if it has potential, use metal.

I dont want it any smaller than 26" x 15" wheels, 100" from axel to axel, its supposed to be big!

I am fully aware that even the real bike was hard to steer, and you kinda have to steer with your elbows, add on the fact that you are lying down and it will be quite a challenge!

Im so glad i dont need gears and stuff!

That link has lots of pics! saved em all for referance

Now I understand that most people opt for petrol engines.... but I want to use elctric because on paper its simpler, and the "real" batpod was electric (as in it was meant to be in the batman world)

I just want to reiterate, this will NOT be a motorbike. It will be a two wheeled electric gokart at most.

As for my cardboard mock up i have made the two wheels, they are massive, but look the part. tomorrow morning i should be able to get some of the frame done.

I also plan on making a small scale 1:6 version so i can test out the steering. I am not 100% how well it will steer, but from the configuration im guessing ti will be pretty much like a chopper style bike (correct me if im wrong please!)

stay tuned for my super fab (ish) cardboard mock up!

 

[mckutzy]

With electricity you will need batteries. They weigh alot and you will need a few, and they arent cheap aswell. You will also need the controller for the motor with a hand throttle, kill switch, and a break away dead man switch(like on a jet ski or snow machine when you fall or get thrown off).
I will say all of this alone is much more than what would be done with a gas engine, perhaps twice or more the cost of the whole vehicle and thats not with the cables or other peripherals associated with.

26" x 15" wheels, I am confused by this description of tires. what does this mean?

 

[Meathead316]

I understand that an electric kart is more expensive, buts in theory its a simpler design (i dont realy know anything aout engines etc, and know more about electric, soldering, relays etc etc and all that you mentioned like dead man swicth and all that i recon i could build.

the 26" x 15" measurement is the overall wheel and tyre, as if each wheel was a cylinder, it would have a 26" diameter and 15" thick.

No this morning ive been playing with some cardboard working on my small scale model (gone with 1/10 scale coz the math is easier ) Now the back end was simple, then i got to the front and i thought that was simple to until i decided to have a go at the steering.

Now i see how the steering on a bike works, you twist the handle bars and the front wheel twists accordingly. so if the two wheels were seen from above they would go from this:

|
|

to this:

|
\

simple as the fork that holds the front wheel on is pretty much vertical. here in lyes my problem, the "fork" on the batpod is near on horizontal so i think the steering system will have to be less like a bike and more like a front wheel of a car like this:



Now as there is no room for a steering rack its gonna have to be a system of rods and such linked to the front wheel hub and the "handle bars"

But as you can see from the pic there isnt much room for the front wheel to pivot, do you think that will be enough to sufficiently turn?

Im gonna keep toying with ideas and playng with my cardboard and i will post some pics of my models later on if they are any good!

If anyone else has a genius steering solution then please share!

also i still need wheels!!

 

[Meathead316]

another thing

been looking at welders

Ive read a mig welder is best for beginner and have found this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gasless-M...098?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5d2e964b22

Say Im welding steel, what size (and type) of flux would be best. Also are there any good guides (preferably videos) to mig welding (pref of metal frames or something similar)

also found this mask:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Auto-Dark...OI_ProtectiveGear_RL&var=&hash=item19d41aedd7

Am i correct that assuming that a gasless/no gal mig welder is just that and NO gas is needed... ever, and its pretty much a beefed up soldering iron? (and the flux is essentially solder?)

as for steel, anything in particular i should look for or avoid? (im thinking square steel as opposed to round as it will make joining piece easier as they will be flat)

back onto my build, i may cheat... I may just use a traditional bike steering system witha 90 degree rake angle directly above the front wheel (using as slim metal as i can get away with to hide it from view! do ya recon 1 inch thick will work?) and then build the actual "fork" for cosmetic purposes only (out of wood!!!! )

U may think this is a bit of a cop out, but i am a firm believer that the best machines are the simplist ones! I will incorporate this in my small scale model.

 

[Meathead316]

Quick update

Been in the garden for an hour or so today playing with my gian cardboard wheels and some plastic pipe. Now the pics you are about to see are just for me to get a feel for how big the bike will be, and will make up the main structure of the bike when i come to make it out of metal. My plastic/cardboard version is a little floppy and is crap, but all it needs to do is be a 3d template, which it is. Also i am defo going for the cheat style steering as it works on my model and you get enough range of movement to rotate the front wheel 360 degrees (not necessary but will make steering easier wit max range of motion to play with)

pics:


It is very long!


Front wheel straight (with its standard bike style fork setup)


This will probably be the max angle i will have the front wheel able to turn at.

The steering like this will be very simple, basically the front fork will have a cross section on it (like your basic bike does) and this will be liked to another set of handle bars that i will hold onto with a solid metal rod (free to pivot) on each end of each handle bar, so however you twist the back ones, the front one does too. simples!

 

[mckutzy]

As for a similar Idea of steering. Bimota Tesi 3d. or do a search of a forkless motorcycle.
The bat pods(there were many made for the movie) used a motorcycle engine and from what I can see are hydraulic motors on the wheels.

This vid I found, more your kinda deal(mine actually kinda reminds me of my bike). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdBgCX3-zME&feature=player_embedded

These machines mostly of this site arent that difficult to make, its the finer points that make them work and better, but I wouldnt say they are simple, some to say the least.

 

[Meathead316]

thanks for the info, a forkless setup seems a lot more complicated than using a fork...

Back to the **** wheels!

I wanted to use these wheels:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-Land-..._tyres_Rims_Car_Wheels_ET&hash=item3a78725433

Now from what ive researched they weight a whopping 70lbs each, so thats 280lbs just for the wheels... thats way more than i weight (im 210lbs) so thats almost 500lbs on just me and wheels.... i will need a LOT of power!

I am desperate to find a solution for the wheels!

Also the mig welder link i posted, is it suitable?

And how much is metal likely to cost me?

 

[Meathead316]

Quadbike/atv wheels and tyres ftw!!!!!

 

[mckutzy]

The bat pod is "forkless" hence my links to a similar vehicle

The welder you have posted is a flux cored welder, I would say, do you trust your welding with a machine you built, going maybe about 60km/h with 140# fore and aft of wheels and little or no experience on how to weld or other mechanical experience(than what you have eluded to on this thread), if that is so go buy the machine.

I reckon you will need to spend a few $K to get a decent welding machine and associated peripherals. Then you will need to learn to weld, this machine is going to have some stress points unlike other motorbikes so a good machine will be needed.

The wheels are the most unconventional for this machine, This is going to have a custom hub for both sets of wheels and have the drive line and then steering to connect together. There is going to have many custom machined parts for this to ultimately function.
Do a search on the bikes and other machines using car tires here and also on the net, you will find not many people have built them using these wheels.

On my build(check my sig line) I did use a car spare tire. I had worked in a fully equipped machine shop(at the time) and had the use of the facilities as I needed. I had found it kinda difficult to make a hub to fit for the tire. I had to figure out a design that would handle the wheel( it was a 5 bolt), easy to make within a reasonable amount of time, material and effort.
All in all, it was alot more work than I thought. The hub was basically the critical part in all of my bike. The frame is based off of the tire, of width and height. Later I had a design flaw concerning the drive chain interfering with the frame, I needed that tire in place to find the clearance.


This will be a big project. Im also guessing your in the UK or in Europe, parts will be a more expensive as there isnt alot of places like harbor freight or the princess auto like here in N America(AFAIK).

 

[Meathead316]

Ive got to learn how to weld somehow, and i think a gokart project would be a great way to learn! ill be sure to be wearing a helmet incase the welds fail

I dont have a spare few k though.... barely a spare few hundred!

The wheels are very onconventional for a two wheeled bike due to their massive width, but it is doable!

The forkless steering will be far too complicated to a n00b such as myself to tackle for a first project, so im gonna cheat a little and use forks. The finished bike will not be 100% screen accurate, but will closely resemble the batpod from a cosmetic standpoint, mechanically i will go with what ever is simplest.

I may make another prototype, get some old bike wheels (2 for each end spaced 12 inches part to simulate big wheels) and make a very thick wooden frame. No means of power but it will give me an idea on where to position handle bars and foot rests etc.

We dont have any of them massive wholesale type chep autoparts places in england

Just checked out your build thread, looks awesome!!!

I will be using similar wheel mountings, infact almost identical.

These are the bearing i will use

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UCP205-Pi...884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4a99897b0c

What did you use for the shaft? (or did you make it yourself?)

also, excuse my ignorance, but how is the shaft held in place inside the bearing? is it welded? or does it have a flat edge or something?

 

[mckutzy]

The shaft is usually held by an eccentric locking ring that locks against the inner race and the shaft. There is also some bearings that have a few set screws. On my bike, there is some shaft collars to keep it lock down so no movement occurs(made that mistake without).
On my bike the shafts were a solid bar of shafting stock, I measured for the length, set up the mill and cut the key ways.

I reckon if this is going to built on the cheap and like I have said little or no experience doing so, I would be very careful on how you build it and when you try to ride it.

 

[Meathead316]

I do not have a machine to cut a groove along a metal rod.... what are my options here?

ok so the front wheel will be setup juts like a regular bike, a fork, bearing on each side, wheel inbetween. easy. the rear im probably gonna do the same, fork setup but with a sprocket on the axel. As for brakes i was thiking a disc brake would be the safest option. are thy hydarlic of cable operated? would a bicycle disc brake work?

steering i think ive got sussed out as i have the suspension.

when pay day comes i will get some plastic/wood and some old bike wheels and build a 1:1 scale ridable version with everything exactly as it will be when its gonna be metal, that way i will be able to get on it, and test the steering etc and remaking parts will be cheap and easy.

I am gonna make sure everything is rock solid before i take it for a spin, and it will be test driven on a grass field so its a softer landing should i come off!

 

[Meathead316]

been looking up motors, and a brand new 800q motor is gonna be expensive, and i dont think will be strong enough. Ive been watching some videos on youtube of people using 24v starter motors at 36v and the power they are getting is insane!

What tyre of starter motor will i need? will these work:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/95-MAZDA-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cc9842f39

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/01-05-MG-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item45fbb28569

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALFA-ROME...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item41692dbe23

If i were to use a starter motor, what kind of controller would i use? (like how would i know how many watts?)

Also how would i attach a sprocket? weld it on?