wanna build a chain tensioner...

[dwcopple]

what can I use for a wheel? I've heard of people using roller skate wheels. Anything else cheap that works?

 

[crazykart]

Go to a junkyard, go to any car/junk engine, pull off a serpentine belt tensioner. They will charge you around $5 if they charge you at all, and that will be your whole assembly right there.

 

[machinist@large]

Go to a junkyard, go to any car/junk engine, pull off a serpentine belt tensioner. They will charge you around $5 if they charge you at all, and that will be your whole assembly right there.

Depending on the size of the chain, that goes the range of "probably to much tension" to well beyond "way to much tension". If a drive chain as used on most karts is tensioned the same as a serpentine belt, it will fail, and fail catastrophically in very short order.

Drive chains need to have a small amount of free play to prevent the oil lubrication from being forced out. That kind of tension will destroy a chain.

That being said, a small spring load will work. But think in terms of you being able to deflect the tensioner with just a couple of finger's, not hand tools.

 

[crazykart]

Not once did I say to place it as to where it would hold the same amount of tension as a serpentine belt. I've rigged serpentine tensioners up in many different applications without fail. It's all in how you mount it

That being said the roller itself will allow the chain to free flow over it, providing a nice surface for the chain to ride on. Of course if you mount it to give as much tension as was given in the original application then yes it will cause failure.

Loosely mounted though it will be fine. Just like a spring, the more you pull the more force it applies back onto you, so if you don't need a lot of force applied back you don't pull on it as much.

 

[Wtf]

I just had to make some chain tensions yesterday on the fly and all i did was take 2" long bolt put an oversized thick washer on it then a 1" long metal spacer sleeve then an another oversized washer then a nut. I welded it where i needed it, and it works perfect. The chain runs on the sleeve around the bolt and shoot a little lube in between and it works perfect. If you dont already have the stuff in your **** box it may cost you about 40-50 cents total.

 

[machinist@large]

Not once did I say to place it as to where it would hold the same amount of tension as a serpentine belt. I've rigged serpentine tensioners up in many different applications without fail. It's all in how you mount it

That being said the roller itself will allow the chain to free flow over it, providing a nice surface for the chain to ride on. Of course if you mount it to give as much tension as was given in the original application then yes it will cause failure.

Loosely mounted though it will be fine. Just like a spring, the more you pull the more force it applies back onto you, so if you don't need a lot of force applied back you don't pull on it as much.

:toetap05: :toetap05: :toetap05:

Providing only partial information on something like this is worse than no information at all. If you had provided more information in your first post, I wouldn't have posted what I did.

Now, you claim you've done it many times: I demand proof. Every serpentine belt tensioner I've ever had experience with, even with the belt removed and the tensioner up against the released hard stop is still many time's over to strong to be used on a chain. Finger tip tension? If a 290 lbs guy like me can't budge one of these without additional hand tools, then the odds of using one as a chain tensioner are somewhere between zero and zilch.

 

[afremont]

I gotta go with machinist@large on this one. There is a fairly large preload on a serpentine tensioner when it's at it's lowest tension (against the stop), maybe 20 or 30 ft-lb (I'm guessing on that, but it's pretty stiff).

 

[crazykart]

:toetap05: :toetap05: :toetap05:

Providing only partial information on something like this is worse than no information at all. If you had provided more information in your first post, I wouldn't have posted what I did.

Idk about you, but I actually like to give people the benefit of the doubt that they have some common sense to utilize the information provided. You don't have to be a genius to understand that you're not going to need the same amount of tension on a small chain that is provided on a large serpentine belt. You also don't have to constantly think that you are smarter than everyone, and just because you don't understand that the amount of tension held in a mounting position equals the amount of force applied does not mean that tithes can not grasp that concept easily. Again, the amount of force initially applied during mounting will reflect the amount of force applied during final assembly. If you mount it to where it is already holding an extreme amount of force (as in the application of on a vehicle) then the final product will reflect that force. If you mount it to where there is little to almost no force, then the final application will reflect that as well.

As far as your demand of anything... I do not submit to demands from those that can not show a basic respect for other people's thoughts and opinions. Have I used serpentine belt tensioners before for other applications besides their intended ones? Yes. Have they worked? If properly mounted to give the desired amount of tension, then yes. Have others used then before with success? Yes, many, including some from this very forum, which is where I got the original idea from. From those either using just the wheel part, to those using the full tensioner.

Now as to not hijack this thread anymore these are the last words I will say on this subject in an open forum. If you don't like my idea, or opinions, well hate to say it but too bad for you. I'm sure you have had many ideas that others thought wouldn't wotk, but turned out to work quite well, yet you can't give others the benefit of the doubt... hm

 

[Iron John]

I'm going to go with the crazy dude on this one.

Almost anything can and has been used as a tensioner - it all depends on the application and the use case.

If you can match what you have to work with with what needs to be accomplished - well, that is the way things move ahead.

Ol' crazy never said he was cranking the tensioners up to as tight as they run on an engine with a rubber belt. Be careful about assuming facts not in evidence.

What you get with an automotive tensioner is a bearing that will outlast any go-kart. It will only be as 'tight' as the way it is mounted.

Anyone with mechanical sense can picture that; agreed?

 

[chancer]

I just had to make some chain tensions yesterday on the fly and all i did was take 2" long bolt put an oversized thick washer on it then a 1" long metal spacer sleeve then an another oversized washer then a nut. I welded it where i needed it, and it works perfect. The chain runs on the sleeve around the bolt and shoot a little lube in between and it works perfect. If you dont already have the stuff in your **** box it may cost you about 40-50 cents total.

I am gonna agree with this Guy. I was gonna make one once using about this method. But Home Depot sells some nylon spacers and nylon washers. I was gonna use those for the chain to ride on. Again a couple bucks or less. Never did figure out a spring tensioner though?

As far as the Arguement above. Crazy was correct in giving you the benefit of the doubt on your knowledge. While the Machinist was not part of this forum this Spring, Crazy and some of us DID in Fact follow your "Mower Kart" build that ispart of the current 2015 Build off, so he was aware of your abilities.

 

[machinist@large]

Idk about you, but I actually like to give people the benefit of the doubt that they have some common sense to utilize the information provided. You don't have to be a genius to understand that you're not going to need the same amount of tension on a small chain that is provided on a large serpentine belt. You also don't have to constantly think that you are smarter than everyone, and just because you don't understand that the amount of tension held in a mounting position equals the amount of force applied does not mean that tithes can not grasp that concept easily. Again, the amount of force initially applied during mounting will reflect the amount of force applied during final assembly. If you mount it to where it is already holding an extreme amount of force (as in the application of on a vehicle) then the final product will reflect that force. If you mount it to where there is little to almost no force, then the final application will reflect that as well.

As far as your demand of anything... I do not submit to demands from those that can not show a basic respect for other people's thoughts and opinions. Have I used serpentine belt tensioners before for other applications besides their intended ones? Yes. Have they worked? If properly mounted to give the desired amount of tension, then yes. Have others used then before with success? Yes, many, including some from this very forum, which is where I got the original idea from. From those either using just the wheel part, to those using the full tensioner.

Now as to not hijack this thread anymore these are the last words I will say on this subject in an open forum. If you don't like my idea, or opinions, well hate to say it but too bad for you. I'm sure you have had many ideas that others thought wouldn't wotk, but turned out to work quite well, yet you can't give others the benefit of the doubt... hm

I'm calling you out because you refuse to give actual details. If you now claim that you don't have to back up your claims with proof because I'm demanding proof? Guess what; that doesn't work for very long on this forum.

Show us, in detail. If you can actually provide facts and photos to back up your claims, I will be the first to apologize in public on the forum. And I know enough of the moderator's here that we could even condense it all into a special thread just for that.

Man up or shut up.

I'm going to go with the crazy dude on this one.

Almost anything can and has been used as a tensioner - it all depends on the application and the use case.

If you can match what you have to work with with what needs to be accomplished - well, that is the way things move ahead.

Ol' crazy never said he was cranking the tensioners up to as tight as they run on an engine with a rubber belt. Be careful about assuming facts not in evidence.

What you get with an automotive tensioner is a bearing that will outlast any go-kart. It will only be as 'tight' as the way it is mounted.

Anyone with mechanical sense can picture that; agreed?

A factory serpentine belt tensioner that is spring loaded from the factory doesn't come with provisions for individual adjustment. The only way to deal with that would involve tearing it apart and modifying it. He refuses to even hint at how he's done that, let alone offered details or proof. Until such a time that the information actually appears?

I stand by my remarks!!!!!

---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------

is[/I]part of the current 2015 Build off, so he was aware of your abilities.

Try checking out the date I joined, as well as my personal bio.

 

[chancer]

Dude I know when you joined. I just mentioned that you were not Active this past spring.
As your "bio shows" 4 posts from Feb 2 to June 29. Sorry if I should have said "not active" instead of "not part of". I only backed Crazy up on that one point: That he gave the guy benefit of the doubt on his own knowledge.
I do not know or care if a serpentine tensioner will work. I gave my own advice, including mention of lack of knowledge on the spring tension.

 

[Poboy kartman]

FIGHT FIGHT!!!!........

 

[OzFab]

Opinions are like noses, everyone has one & they're all different; let's just remember that & move on without the unnecessary animosity...

dwcopple, I used a pitbike chain roller, cost me about $10 new for the whole tensioner assembly...

 

[crazykart]

Who said anything about modifying the tensioner in any way?

When you pull a tensioner off of a car does it still hold tension in your hand? Will it snap or jump at you while holding it? NO. It's mounted in such a way that it holds a certain amount of tension at rest. Using it for different applications requires mounting it in different ways. If you mount it to where when you put the chain on it the chain barely rides on it/only pulls the tensioner back a few mm then you are controlling the amount of force applied. It is a spring that holds the tension, period. Take a spring and put one end in a vice, now pull the other. You will realize that the amount of force the spring applies back is directly proportionate to the amount of pressure you apply. You apply 5 pds of pressure, it applies 5 pds back. You apply 30 pds of pressure (like how it is mounted in a vehicle) it applies 30 pds back. What don't you get about that?

It is all about the placement of mounting, angle, and tension held while mounted. All of which are controllable factors. When using it as a chain tensioner you mount it to where the chain barely, just barely pulls it back, maybe to where you have to pull the tensioner back 2-3 degrees to place the chain, thus allowing only a small amount of force to be applied back to the chain. You don't mount it to where you have to pull the tensioner back 20+ degrees to be able to put the chain on like you have to in a vehicle.

Seriously how are you reading so much into such a simple concept?

I will be using this same set up on my build off entry, maybe then you will actually understand that force created equals force applied.

It really is a simple concept, you put in 1 pound of force, you get 1 pound of force returned.

Edit: I apologize as I am not trying to fight with anyone, or bring unwanted animosity, but being attacked over a simple concept is uncalled for.

 

[Poboy kartman]

Who said anything about modifying the tensioner in any way?

When you pull a tensioner off of a car does it still hold tension in your hand? Will it snap or jump at you while holding it? NO. It's mounted in such a way that it holds a certain amount of tension at rest. Using it for different applications requires mounting it in different ways. If you mount it to where when you put the chain on it the chain barely rides on it/only pulls the tensioner back a few mm then you are controlling the amount of force applied. It is a spring that holds the tension, period. Take a spring and put one end in a vice, now pull the other. You will realize that the amount of force the spring applies back is directly proportionate to the amount of pressure you apply. You apply 5 pds of pressure, it applies 5 pds back. You apply 30 pds of pressure (like how it is mounted in a vehicle) it applies 30 pds back. What don't you get about that?

It is all about the placement of mounting, angle, and tension held while mounted. All of which are controllable factors. When using it as a chain tensioner you mount it to where the chain barely, just barely pulls it back, maybe to where you have to pull the tensioner back 2-3 degrees to place the chain, thus allowing only a small amount of force to be applied back to the chain. You don't mount it to where you have to pull the tensioner back 20+ degrees to be able to put the chain on like you have to in a vehicle.

Seriously how are you reading so much into such a simple concept?

I will be using this same set up on my build off entry, maybe then you will actually understand that force created equals force applied.

It really is a simple concept, you put in 1 pound of force, you get 1 pound of force returned.

Edit: I apologize as I am not trying to fight with anyone, or bring unwanted animosity, but being attacked over a simple concept is uncalled for.

Well...I'll have to admit some ignorance here...But!!! IIRC...some tensioners mount as a complete unit with a built in stop....which has enough pre-loaded tension to make them worthless as chain tensioners without modification....

Now....as far as your spring theory....if I stand on a small utility trailer...the spring is going to operate...if I stand on a semi trailer....it's not going to....

You should have been here long enough now to know: "Pics ...or it didn't happen! "

 

[Iron John]

I stand by my remarks!!!!![

Good for you. Have a cookie. Me, I don't feed trolls.

 

[Iron John]

IIRC...some tensioners mount as a complete unit with a built in stop....which has enough pre-loaded tension to make them worthless as chain tensioners without modification....

So there are two ways of using a tensioner. Static, and dynamic.

A two-pulley (sprocket) system uses static tension. Too loose, and you can add a third component, locating it just so. That is a static tensioner, such as the bolt-washer-spacer setup someone mentioned above. Or like the insides of a Harley primary.

The tensioner can be resiliently mounted. Lawnmower drives often use a spring-loaded pulley. Everyone has seen examples of these.

An automotive tensioner can be mounted statically, or dynamically using whatever cleverness available - and that is not limited to use of the uber-strong factory spring.

Next, let's debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[Poboy kartman]

So there are two ways of using a tensioner. Static, and dynamic.

A two-pulley (sprocket) system uses static tension. Too loose, and you can add a third component, locating it just so. That is a static tensioner, such as the bolt-washer-spacer setup someone mentioned above. Or like the insides of a Harley primary.

The tensioner can be resiliently mounted. Lawnmower drives often use a spring-loaded pulley. Everyone has seen examples of these.

An automotive tensioner can be mounted statically, or dynamically using whatever cleverness available - and that is not limited to use of the uber-strong factory spring.

Next, let's debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Yeah....well...a "static" tensioner is an adjuster and is only useful to set the chain distance ....the same thing the slots in an engine plate do....and totally useless if a tensioner is needed.....

And....shut up.

 

[OzFab]

... & we're done here...