Vintage Kart Rules

[Hellfish]

I'm starting a new event - a vintage go kart & minibike rallye - called the White Knuckle Scramble. We're scouting locations now, but everyone keeps asking me for build rules.

We want to keep this to vintage or homebuilt karts/bikes and want to keep it so that the average guy can do it cheap. We want to keep out the high-powered shifter karts (those guys have plenty of places to race). We will probably set up a course in a parking lot, so really fast karts/bikes might be overwhelming/dangerous anyway.

Classes will likely depend on what shows up, but will probably start with centrifugal clutch or torque converter, then be subdivided into HP, or maybe no classes at all if only a few people show up.

At first I thought air-cooled, pull start motors only, but I have a friend with a 60s Margay with an electric start, so that may not work.

How about:
air-cooled
naturally aspirated
pull-start (unless original vintage pre-70s engine)
5hp or less (per engine)
no bodies

Karts and bikes should be pre-1975(?)s in origin, or be homebuilt and look pre-1975.

I don't want a bunch of mopeds, scooters, and small cc bikes showing up, but if they do, we may just lump them into 1 class.

 

[anderkart]

Well, I'd guess It'll come down to what type of karts the guys have that show any interest, and what karts end up having an unfair advantage on the track. At that point you could either group all the faster karts into their own special class, or decide to enact more strict rules, or simply eliminate those karts from competing. (just like most all racekarts tracks do...)

Rear engine karts with engines that originally had 10hp (and/or under) might be a good start. Limiting the types/widths of tires would also help take some of the advantages away from guys that could afford to build their engines up...

If I were you, I'd seriously consider joining/adopting the same rules of the vintage kart-racing club you'll find at this link:--> http://www.kartrods.com/

You should prolly check out this thread too:--> http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17606

Good luck

edit/ps:
You should probably also have a really good lawyer draw you up a disclaimer contract, and have all the racers fully understand and sign it before competing. Otherwise you might end up being found liable/sued when (not if) someone gets seriously injured racing...

You also might run into problems with cops busting your parking lot track, and with the owners of those parking lots potentially being liable to law suits if any racers were seriously injured while competing.

Have you already checked out the forum/rules at this link? --> http://www.vkavintagekarting.com/

 

[Hellfish]

Thanks for the links! We're working out all the legal stuff now. We'll definitely have insurance and permission from the location's owner. As for a waiver, I have a copy of the SCCA's waiver and will be getting one from a vintage motorcycle race group, merging them together, and then having a lawyer look it over.

 

[Hellfish]

I should add that I'm pretty new to karting, but like Big Weld said "See a need, fill a need!" The vintage kart tracks are all 3+ ours from Chicago and those guys seem to take things a little more seriously than the guys I'm attracting, plus they don't seem to allow minibikes. I'm trying to create an event for the casual karter/biker to just have fun without a lot of financial investment.

Maybe "Don't take this too seriously" should be one of the rules.

 

[anderkart]

Cool, sounds good man; but I've been involved in racing karts for several years now, (both at pro-level racekart tracks and low tech, backyard-type tracks) and one thing I've learned is: Anytime you get 2 or more guys together in any form of competition, chances are very good that they WILL definetly end up taking it very seriously!

Edit:
I think most higher quality/factory made karts can be fairly safe to race, but I also think including any 2-wheelers in your plans could end up being a recipe for disaster. Parking lots tend to accumulate dirt, debris and loose gravel, and thats definetly not the best situation for any 2-wheelers to be racing around high speed corners...

I've heard of a few racekart tracks that briefly tried out a minibike class. As far as I know they all ended up with lots more wrecks/serious injuries than their kart classes.

 

[FatCat]

Cool, sounds good man; but I've been involved in racing karts for several years now, (both at pro-level racekart tracks and low tech, backyard-type tracks) and one thing I've learned is: Anytime you get 2 or more guys together in any form of competition, chances are very good that they WILL definetly end up taking it very seriously!


LOL I just thought the same thing.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

I would consider upping the max engine size to include the GX200's and clones, due to popularity and availability. Keep 'em stock if you like, but some folks may not have the technical knowledge to revive a vintage engine even though they have a vintage kart.

 

[Hellfish]

What's a reasonable CC or HP to set the limit at? It seems like the VKA's limit for dual engine karts is 270cc, but that seems a little low. One B&S 5hp engine is 206 or so, so we're not talking a lot of power at a 270 max... but I don't want to allow for crazy, dangerous speeds for amateurs either. I know there are 18hp engines, snowmobile engines, etc.

 

[anderkart]

206cc/4-cycle is prolly the best rule to help keep speeds down, but guys with $$$ will still end up spending big-bucks to achieve 9000rpm/20-hp, and make it totally unfair for others that don't have the means to compete.

If you really wanna control costs/speeds, you could adopt the 'Box-Stock' clone rules, and/or go with a Briggs Local 206 engine-only rule, just like most pro-level racekart tracks have ended up doing.

Or, (my vote would be to) just start out with a 'run what-cha brung' type thing and see if you even need to be worrying about having any engine rules at all...

If I was starting this thing out, I'd try to not have any rules that would eliminate guys from joining, and then let the drivers be involved in adopting any rules that would make things safer, and much easier for newbe'ys (and people w/o deep pockets) to at least have half a chance of not being lapped.

I think eliminating side-engine racekarts, and kinda stressing your vintage/rat-rod ascetics is prolly going to end up eliminating a lot of potential guys from joining your club here. Most racekart tracks started adopting strict rules only after the need was discovered. If you start out with too many rules, you could end up being the only guy at your races...

 

[Hellfish]

Yeah, it's a balance between too little and too few rules. We don't want to be too strict about "vintage" knowing these things aren't exactly growing on trees. It's a race, so I don't want to restrict HP/CC too much, but no restrictions may ultimately affect where we can have it/how much it will cost. I definitely do want to keep out the guys with deep pockets. It's not about "rat karts" but I want to keep it a fun event (not club) that everyone can participate in, on teh same level playing field. The big buck guys have plenty of places to race.

How does 206cc per engine sound for regular races, but include some sort of "unlimited class" where higher CCs are allowed? I still think there would need to be a cap somewhere to keep things fair and vintage-ish. 20hp is too much... especially if we apply the same rules to minibikes. I already had a talk with one track that was willing to allow minis but only if they were relatively slow (e.g., 5-6hp range). Apparently most tracks won't even consider them.