OzFab
Well-known member
You haven't mentioned anything about what engine you intend to use, which makes it difficult to guage what steel you should use (no pun intended)
Utility cart?
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I get most of my cart stuff at heinhold; and feller. Thanks though I'll drop by and give them a look
@fabro, will it matter what engine I use? I'm looking at a 20:1 ratio here.
souperman000
New member
If your using a 600cc sportbike engine vs a 6.5hp clone, you want a much stronger frame.
If you want a strong frame for pulling power, I would make it stronger than the average yard kart, but not something so overboard that it can't even move its own weight.
OzFab
Well-known member
As soup tried to explain, if you build a frame from 3/16" C channel then put a 6.5hp predator on it, it won't matter what gearing you use, it won't move.
On the flipside, If we assume you'll be using a predator & base our suggestions on that, then you go & put a 1000cc sportsbike engine on it, it'll tear the frame to bits
So, yes, It matters a lot!
Doc Sprocket
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The whole engine size/gearing equation really amounts to how large are the tires, and what are you trying to accomplish. 21:1 is pretty dang steep and would pull a house with 6hp on kart tires. However, put some huge ag tires on there, and a lot of that goes out the window.
Well, I'd probably be using some pretty big tires, probably somewhere in the 30-40 range at least. it's meant to be slow, and pull, push, and rip whatever it is attached to it. I was thinking of maybe even trying to make it into a dually with some aggressive tread, and a tone of weight over the rear axle for grip. The general idea is something that I can put a plow on and push a giant pile of snow, put a rope on and drag a car with it's parking break on, attach to a tree and rip it out of the dirt. You get the general idea here. I just want it to be extremely strong, speed is not relevant (within reason).
a friend of my uncle used an old tractor to do something like this and I just thought it was cool. He took 3 sets of the giant tractor tires that come up to a man's shoulder and welded the hubs together so give it a huge stance, then he welded 1 transmission into the back of another with his 18 horse kohler on the front of it. He had concrete blocks all over this thing and it was probably a few tons. He managed to pull a car that was in park with flat tires through grass, going uphill without batting an eye, I thought it'd be cool to make a smaller version of it.
a friend of my uncle used an old tractor to do something like this and I just thought it was cool. He took 3 sets of the giant tractor tires that come up to a man's shoulder and welded the hubs together so give it a huge stance, then he welded 1 transmission into the back of another with his 18 horse kohler on the front of it. He had concrete blocks all over this thing and it was probably a few tons. He managed to pull a car that was in park with flat tires through grass, going uphill without batting an eye, I thought it'd be cool to make a smaller version of it.
Doc Sprocket
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I have looked into homebuilt tractors before, and one thing I see a lot of is guys using manual trannies from rear-drive cars and trucks. An industrial engine is attached to the tranny input with belt and pulley, with quite a bit or reduction. Then you have the reduction of the transmission. Finally, you have the reduction of a car or truck rearend.
If everything is geared right, you will find yourself needing weight over the front, to keep it from catwalking while pulling...
If everything is geared right, you will find yourself needing weight over the front, to keep it from catwalking while pulling...
That's a good idea, I know there are alot of s-10/c-10 trannies and engines going around on CL right now, I'll just keep the engine for other things and go to the scrapyard to find an old differential the drivetrain parts should only run me a good 650, and that's if I find a trans+engine and not just a trans. I found some angle gears on mcmaster's website that might be able to handle a 20something horse engine , then I can take an opposed 18 horse, which I can usually find in a tractor for around $300. Using the vehicle rearend also will eliminate the issue of finding a chain that will take a couple hundred ft lbs of torque.
souperman000
New member
I was rushed! But you get the point
rolleyes
Unforgivable !!! :toetap05:
With a 20:1 ratio you better have a strong frame if you use a big engine. The torque you will generate will rip anything inferior to shreds
Thick steel, lots of triangles, crossmembers wherever possible. I love doing engineering stuff, I posted a c art design on here a while back that I think I might adapt.
OzFab
Well-known member
Y'know, there's an easier way; go find an old beat up toyota hilux 4x4, they're almost indestructable
Where's the fun in buying something thats already made?
OzFab
Well-known member
Agreed but, after reading what you want it to do, that's pretty much what you'll end up with, either that or a tractor...
You're gonna need some serious torque, a small diesel engine will probably be your best shot
You're gonna need some serious torque, a small diesel engine will probably be your best shot
Well I'll start giving it a look, I would like a new project after this truck of mine is finished, and the last parts we'll need for it will be in this week. But I don't know if a pickup truck will do what we need either, I already have a ford F-250 custom with a 4.9L straight 6, a 4 speed manual tranny with a granny gear, and a high torque rear end. Some of the things we need done are just so stubborn, there was a black walnut stump that needed getting rid of so we wrapped a tow-chain around it, hooked it up to the rear bumper, which was welded to the frame in several places and was made out of 1/4" steel, the stump was stuck so hard that we put it in 4 wheel, in granny gear, and all 4 tires were slipping, we backed up and got a 20 foot head start and were probably going 15-20 MPH when we hit the end of the chain, and it actually ripped the bumper from the frame. We ended up dropping $150 on a poulan wild thing to cut it the rest of the way out. We also did some bad welds on it with a welder that couldn't penetrate the metal, it's not strong but at least it won't drag.
But I was planning on entering this utility tractor/cart thing in the next build-off.
Where can I get a small diesel from, and for about how much? What machines would typically have that for me to look into buying used?
Doc Sprocket
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I'm going to (rare moment) disagree with Fab ever so slightly With the kind of gear reduction you'd be looking at (based on previous ideas and suggestions) I don't think you'd need to lay out the bucks for a diesel. Let's remember that when using gear reduction to divide speed you multiply torque.
To put things into perspective: A common example. DIY tractor using a 20hp industrial engine, car tranny, car rearend. Let's suppose that you've got the engine coupled to the tranny via belt and pulley. In this case, let's say at 4:1. Then, you've got the reduction of first gear in that tranny, which is quite often 3:1 or better. Right now you're at 12:1. Throw in the reduction of that automotive rearend -Let's say you cut down the third member of a little Jeep or something, at 4:1 (common). Total reduction in first gear? 48:1. Yeah. Mind the tire size, and you're pulling houses with your little homebrew tractor...
With the kind of gear reduction you'd be looking at (based on previous ideas and suggestions) I don't think you'd need to lay out the bucks for a diesel. Let's remember that when using gear reduction to divide speed you multiply torque.To put things into perspective: A common example. DIY tractor using a 20hp industrial engine, car tranny, car rearend. Let's suppose that you've got the engine coupled to the tranny via belt and pulley. In this case, let's say at 4:1. Then, you've got the reduction of first gear in that tranny, which is quite often 3:1 or better. Right now you're at 12:1. Throw in the reduction of that automotive rearend -Let's say you cut down the third member of a little Jeep or something, at 4:1 (common). Total reduction in first gear? 48:1. Yeah. Mind the tire size, and you're pulling houses with your little homebrew tractor...
I'm going to (rare moment) disagree with Fab ever so slightly
To put things into perspective: A common example. DIY tractor using a 20hp industrial engine, car tranny, car rearend. Let's suppose that you've got the engine coupled to the tranny via belt and pulley. In this case, let's say at 4:1. Then, you've got the reduction of first gear in that tranny, which is quite often 3:1 or better. Right now you're at 12:1. Throw in the reduction of that automotive rearend -Let's say you cut down the third member of a little Jeep or something, at 4:1 (common). Total reduction in first gear? 48:1. Yeah. Mind the tire size, and you're pulling houses with your little homebrew tractor...
I'm gonna try to go for extremely wide tires, possibly dualed up, with agressive tread, it's really important that this thing will be able to put all of it's torque on the ground.
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