Two HS Seniors Looking For Help

[blueskywhitewaters]

Greetings,

My friend and I are currently two seniors at a Connecticut boarding school and are writing out plans for a senior project. As we are planning on majoring in engineering and business, and always had a deep interest in vehicles, we wanted to focus on go karts. However, in order to qualify as a senior project, the go kart has to have a new spin on it. Some ideas we threw around were an electric go kart with a solar charging station, a go kart that runs on ethanol or other form of alternative fuel, and a conventional gasoline powered go kart that uses an aluminum and pvc pipe body.

We have two weeks to build, record, and report this project. Our goals are as follows

1. The project should be environmentally friendly, or at the very least, different from the conventional go kart
2. The project will be funded out of pocket. We can secure 1000 dollars and a little more, but we prefer to stay within that price range.
3. As I mentioned earlier, we are in Connecticut (near Hartford) and have very little means of transportation off campus.

The proposal is due early February, the collection of materials from February to late May, and the actual building in late May.

We wanted to come to this forum not only because you guys have superior experience and a lot of knowledge of go karts, but also your input on our ideas. Our goal for this project is not only to garner engineering experience and have a good time, but also to auction the go kart or donate the project to charity, as our final tribute to the experiences we've had at our school. Please help us fulfill our goals.

Thank you very much for your time.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Welcome to the forum, sounds like a great project. I certainly wish I had such an option when I was in school.

Obviously, your biggest hurdle right now is trying to decide on which "spin" to go with. Going "green" would please the tree-huggers, no doubt. Electric isn't my forte, but I know it can get costly. Shop carefully, and $1000 might get you there.

Alternate materials like PVC and aluminum might be an interesting route to take. You'd have to pay close attention to the structural aspect, as PVC is not particularly rigid.

Ethanol probably isn't too much of a reach. Race engines run methanol. With some engine tuning and tweaking, it should be pretty doable. Again, not my forte...

But, what the heck- ask your questions, and we'll do our best.

 

[OzFab]

First up, PVC is a bad idea for 2 reasons:
1. It has no structural strength
2. It's not the must environmentally friendly product.

Aluminium is a great option but, again, there's two hurdles:
1. It can be expensive
2. It's much harder to weld.

Having said that, if you have the facilities & capabilities to weld aluminium & can source used materials, that should keep costs down a little.

Then go with the electric motor. the beauty of that is, by using aluminium, the frame will be lighter so a smaller motor will drive it.

You will, of course, need to use some steel components but, if the frame itself is ali, it should qualify, correct?

 

[blueskywhitewaters]

Thank you very much for your responses!

We've decided to go with a part aluminum, part steel body, and scrap the pvc idea. I'm sure the school will be fine with us using a hybrid body, as the senior projects are meant to give us as much freedom as we want.

We're still not sure what engine we'll use. Electric seems the most promising, as it's been done before, and the parts are readily available. Yet, we are still open to other ideas, as biofuel seems like an interesting endeavor. Could someone point out where to start to convert an engine to biofuel, and what kind of biofuel would be the easiest to acquire, handle, and power a go kart?

Once again, thank you very much for your responses, and we hope to hear back from you soon!

 

[OzFab]

I suppose it wouldn't be difficult to convert a gasoline or diesel engine to run biofuel but, with an electric motor & solar charging system, it would be completely self sufficient; no need to source fuel, it's all there.

Another option along this path is to run a generator off the motor to recharge the batteries

 

[Doc Sprocket]

I see a generator powering an electric motor (ie charge batteries) as perpetual motion gone horribly awry. With the inherent losses, I think it would end up being less efficient than a good ol' dino-burner.

Biofuel-

You can run brew-your-own biodiesel through a diesel engine without any mods. Look up the Yanmar L100 as a good example of an industrial diesel engine. Chinese clones of this engine are cheaper and widely available. There are also ways of running straight vegetable oil through a diesel with a little effort. In many cases a pre-heater is required. I have heard of guys burning straight veg by starting the engine on dino-diesel, and once warm, using valves to switch to veg. Then, and the end of the run, switch back to dino for a few minutes to purge the lines before shutting down. I have heard that the biggest hurdle to running straight veg is startup. Done decently, you can literally empty a deep-fryer through a filter and into your tank.

Eth and Meth- Since many race karts run on alcohol, I would think that a similar conversion process would allow you to run your favourite booze. Modifications include carburetor re-jetting, and alterations to ignition timing. Possibly more, not my department.

 

[OzFab]

I see a generator powering an electric motor (ie charge batteries) as perpetual motion gone horribly awry. With the inherent losses, I think it would end up being less efficient than a good ol' dino-burner.

Not if you use a big enough motor to run both the generator & the kart itself.

Still, I see your point & agree that solar would be the way to go

 

[falcon52]

What about a steam or air converted 2 stroke? I've been wanting to play around with it for a while now but havent had a chance. Goin with the air route, you would have to have an onboard tank or atleast find a way to replenish some of the air you lose by running the engine. I wish I had the resources to try some of my ideas out on that subject but anyway, give the good ol' youtube a search on some stuff and it may spark something up stairs!

 

[B man]

Okay now I got a neat idea. Instead of say one bigger powerful electric. how about 4 smaller ones? 1 running each wheel? And instead of conventional steering you could use a zero-turn approach and make it like a tank or a bobcat.

 

[blueskywhitewaters]

Once again, thank you all for your responses.

We thought about the generator onboard idea, and we are split so violently on the idea, that we don't want to risk our friendship haha

For the possibility of solar, we played around with the idea of building an electric go kart with a separate solar "charging station" to prevent having to worry about durability issues and the added weight of the solar panels.

We also love the vegetable oil idea. As we understand it, there are two tanks, one of veggie oil and the other of diesel, and we start/finish with the diesel and use veggie oil during the ride. Is there a cut off switch incorporated, or should we do this manually? Also, are diesel engines easy to acquire? Would the conversion be costly?

We still have time before our initial proposition is due, but we want to ask which one is more realistic given our budget and time constraints (8 hr/day, 2 wks)? We feel that either pathway will work, but with our limited hands on experience with engines, we're hesitant to play with timing or anything that can jeopardize the success of our project.

As always, thank you for your kind attention and responses

 

[OzFab]

For the possibility of solar, we played around with the idea of building an electric go kart with a separate solar "charging station" to prevent having to worry about durability issues and the added weight of the solar panels.

What would be the weight difference between having a solar panel & it's related hardware or a massive bank of batteries so that it can run for more than 5 minutes at a time? Either way, you're gonna have extra weight

we want to ask which one is more realistic given our budget and time constraints (8 hr/day, 2 wks)? We feel that either pathway will work, but with our limited hands on experience with engines, we're hesitant to play with timing or anything that can jeopardize the success of our project.

Budget wise, it's gonna be a lot cheaper to run an ethanol engine: all you need is an engine with a few mods (unless you're lucky enough to score a converted one). I would think there wouldn't be a great deal of difference between running methanol or ethanol (also not my area)

With solar/electric, you need a motor (obviously) speed controller, batteries, solar panels, converter, wiring, etc, etc...

More gear usually means more dollars.

Just my 2cents worth

 

[Doc Sprocket]

We also love the vegetable oil idea. As we understand it, there are two tanks, one of veggie oil and the other of diesel, and we start/finish with the diesel and use veggie oil during the ride. Is there a cut off switch incorporated, or should we do this manually? Also, are diesel engines easy to acquire? Would the conversion be costly?

I looked into diesel alternatives a couple of years ago to satisfy a curiosity, so what knowledge (limited) I do have is at least semi-current. It is what you think- two tanks, with the lines teed together after a couple of valves. The simple approach is manual, but you could trick it out by using solenoids. As I understand it (further research on your part required), there's little or nothing involved with "conversion", aside from the above-mentioned hardware.

I'm not clear on pricing or availability in your area, things like this tend to vary regionally. I can tell you that it will cost a fair bit more for a diesel industrial engine as compared to a common gas engine. You'll have to look around.

I do think that it would be cheaper to acquire a gasoline engine and convert to alcohol.

 

[fowler]

Gotta say I'm with the steam kart

It would be mechanically easier to convert a deisel to veggie

But as for the cost and finding parts it is more that Likely going to be easier to convert a petrol to alcohol

I'm not sure how they will grade the project but maybe base the project off which will get u better marks

Maybe u could look into making your own fuel
That may get u a few extra points

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Steam sounds neat, but I think it would be viewed by some as technologically back-stepping. If those that are grading you happen to see it that way... Well- not good, anyway.

Compressed air is cute too- but it doesn't seem very practical. Having used my fair share of air tools, you'd need a heck of a big tank in order to get any kind of run time out of it. Having an onboard compressor big enough to keep up with the volume demands appears prohibitive. (See also my above comment regarding perpetual motion disasters.) On the plus side- you could have "regenerative braking" by linking a compressor to the axle. Engaging it would certainly slow you down pretty quickly, whilst adding air to the reservoir.

 

[fowler]

Steam is a step back but there is something that people like about steam
Everyone loves a steam train even if they have no interest in trains
Also steam is very efficient

But steam can be very dangerous if not done right that's the only down side

 

[Doc Sprocket]

I wouldn't call it the only down side. You need a boiler! So- big tank o' water, and something to make said water hot. Maybe a propane tank and burner? Again- size and weight issues, no?

 

[fowler]

The weight would be an issue but not as much as other methods
But this is no race kart
20lt of water would cover it to prove the concept
It would last much longer than an electric kart

Of course the old internal combustion engine would be the best choice
There's gotta be a reason everyone's life revolves around the use of them

 

[OzFab]

Of course the old internal combustion engine would be the best choice
There's gotta be a reason everyone's life revolves around the use of them

That would be the discovery & commercial sale of oil

 

[Doc Sprocket]

The weight would be an issue but not as much as other methods
But this is no race kart
20lt of water would cover it to prove the concept
It would last much longer than an electric kart

20 litres of water weighs in at nearly 45lbs. AND the tank. AND the fuel source. AND the burner. AND the piston, valving, lines... If this don't add another 100lbs to an otherwise very light vehicle...

 

[Filipe]

What Connecticut boarding school do you go to? Is it LC?