Trailmaster MID XRX/R Predator 224 Swap?

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mechanicmattc

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Getting my son into yard carts and we picked up a Trailmaster MID XRX/R that was said to have low hours. Figured out the motor has seized up since the unit was parked a couple years ago. It appears to have gotten some moisture in the cylinder somehow. So I’ve been looking at swapping it out with a Predator 224 Max Performance 6.6 HP. Anyone on here used a predator as a replacement on one of these karts? I want to retain the electric start and charging features that the kart already has. I’ve not had a bunch of experience with the Honda clones. Any recommendations or past experience is appreciated! I’m open for suggestions on other brands as well.
 

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BrownStainRacing

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If you're going to reuse flywheel, charging coils and starter, you might as well get the BETTER 224. A far much better product then the predator.

Ducar makes quality engines.
The tolerances and specs are closest to Honda's then any other that I have seen.
Predator specs are all over, no 2 are the same.

You will need the throttle kit (DUCAR-TK) to run the Ducar 224, as it has the governor removed.

Please read the description, DO NOT MODIFY THIS ENGINE. It does not need it. Ducar has hand picked the parts to make it last.
Modifying it, will require much better parts.

Any SMALL BLOCK OHV honda/clone will be a direct bolt on, so no fab work to the frame will be needed.

Racing Cams and Parts | Ducar 224cc Stock Engine | 224-1000 | DynoCams

Explore a World of Parts: Find the Components You Need for Your Projects. From Mechanical to Electronic, Discover a Vast Selection of High-Quality Parts to Fuel Your Creativity. | 224-1000
www.dynocams.com


Racing Cams and Parts | Throttle Kit Without Governor | DUCAR-TK | DynoCams

Explore a World of Parts: Find the Components You Need for Your Projects. From Mechanical to Electronic, Discover a Vast Selection of High-Quality Parts to Fuel Your Creativity. | DUCAR-TK
www.dynocams.com
 
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mechanicmattc

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BrownStainRacing said:
If you're going to reuse flywheel, charging coils and starter, you might as well get the BETTER 224. A far much better product then the predator.

Ducar makes quality engines.
The tolerances and specs are closest to Honda's then any other that I have seen.
Predator specs are all over, no 2 are the same.

You will need the throttle kit (DUCAR-TK) to run the Ducar 224, as it has the governor removed.

Please read the description, DO NOT MODIFY THIS ENGINE. It does not need it. Ducar has hand picked the parts to make it last.
Modifying it, will require much better parts.

Any SMALL BLOCK OHV honda/clone will be a direct bolt on, so no fab work to the frame will be needed.

Racing Cams and Parts | Ducar 224cc Stock Engine | 224-1000 | DynoCams

Explore a World of Parts: Find the Components You Need for Your Projects. From Mechanical to Electronic, Discover a Vast Selection of High-Quality Parts to Fuel Your Creativity. | 224-1000
www.dynocams.com


Racing Cams and Parts | Throttle Kit Without Governor | DUCAR-TK | DynoCams

Explore a World of Parts: Find the Components You Need for Your Projects. From Mechanical to Electronic, Discover a Vast Selection of High-Quality Parts to Fuel Your Creativity. | DUCAR-TK
www.dynocams.com
Click to expand...
After looking at the Ducar that is what I’m going to use. I was planning on reusing as much as I could off of the current engine. I’ll get the throttle kit also. So all the clone engines 196 thru 224 use the same flywheel? I’ve seen mention of some of the parts not being interchangeable if it has the hemi head. I’m not 100% sure how to tell them apart yet by looking at an assembled engine. Some say the valve cover is the easiest way. This is the only photo I have on my phone. Thanks for the recommendation!
 

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BrownStainRacing

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mechanicmattc said:
After looking at the Ducar that is what I’m going to use. I was planning on reusing as much as I could off of the current engine. I’ll get the throttle kit also. So all the clone engines 196 thru 224 use the same flywheel? I’ve seen mention of some of the parts not being interchangeable if it has the hemi head. I’m not 100% sure how to tell them apart yet by looking at an assembled engine. Some say the valve cover is the easiest way. This is the only photo I have on my phone. Thanks for the recommendation!
Click to expand...
The predator 212's are different. Theres a hemi and a non hemi.

The pred 212 hemi crank has a bigger diameter taper, so clone style flywheels do not fit the hemi crank.

Both pred 212 rod journals are .008" bigger. They can interchange with each other, but not with clones.

The side covers are different also. The pred 212 non hemi side cover is unique, and only fits the pred 212 non hemi block. Same as the cam journals.

Pred 212 hemi uses the clone cams, and side covers.

The predator 224 is more clone then the predator 212's. It accepts all clone parts except the crank and piston. Meaning, clone flywheels, cams, side covers, rods can be interchanged. It's actually a ducar 212 block.

All 196's that I have taken apart have been honda clones. Every single part is exactly the same as the honda gx200. The reason they are called honda clones. Same as the clone 163's and 168's, they are exactly the same as the honda gx160.

The only problem I see you having going to the ducar 224, is the choke cable. You might have to use some of the throttle assembly plate to hold the cable. The choke butterfly plate and lever should swap out with the carb on the ducar 224.

Pull the air box off and get a pic of how the choke is hooked up.

Save the head off the 196. Some came with the more desirable 18cc head. Most have 20cc heads on them.
They are getting harder to find around this area. It's a small valve (25/24mm) head, but really wakes up 212's, 223's and 224's.

Any other questions, jus ask. I've tinkered with a ton of the clones engines. Some are put together better then others and use better parts.
 
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mechanicmattc

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I’ve got an update on this kart, I got the engine freed up after a week of spraying AeroKroil on top of the piston. Got it running. It’s obviously down on power and has more blow by than I would like to see. Anyway this will give me a chance to see what else may need attention. I had the carb off yesterday the choke cable has a bracket that bolts on the linkage for the governor. The cable has a 90 degree bend that comes off the back of the engine. I should be able to fab a custom bracket to get it to work once the engine gets swapped out. I don’t think the charging system works. I’ll troubleshoot that and order what we need so we have everything ready when the time comes to drop the rear subframe to swap engines. Thanks again!
 
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BrownStainRacing

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mechanicmattc said:
I’ve got an update on this kart, I got the engine freed up after a week of spraying AeroKroil on top of the piston. Got it running. It’s obviously down on power and has more blow by than I would like to see. Anyway this will give me a chance to see what else may need attention. I had the carb off yesterday the choke cable has a bracket that bolts on the linkage for the governor. The cable has a 90 degree bend that comes off the back of the engine. I should be able to fab a custom bracket to get it to work once the engine gets swapped out. I don’t think the charging system works. I’ll troubleshoot that and order what we need so we have everything ready when the time comes to drop the rear subframe to swap engines. Thanks again!
Click to expand...
How's the oil look in the gear box???

Those charging parts are fairly cheap. I'd say you will find a loose or cut wire somewhere.
It's a pretty reliable system.
 
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Denny

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Pot some Sea-Foam in a spray bottle and get the engine nice and hot and rev it up and spray some in the carb while revving it about 3000 rpm holding the throttle steady. It should want to almost die. Let it recover and do it again. About 5x worth. It will clean the engine and valves and helps free stuck rings!
 
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Karttekk

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What's nice about these karts is the ability to start them from the driver's seat. They have a choke cable in the dash you pull then you push the start button in the dash to start them. Along with headlights, a horn, disc brakes and an adjustable driver's bucket seat, they make a pretty neat machine. I reconditioned one of these and have another one ready to paint. Personally I would stick with the factory engine even though they aren't cheap. That will help keep its value.

hammerheadperformance.com

Hammerhead 6.5hp Engine with Electric Start for 80T and Trailmaster Mid-Size Gokarts - 7.160.012 replaces JF168FLH-8CC

7.160.012, Engine Comp with Electric Start. 80T (6.5 hp)
hammerheadperformance.com hammerheadperformance.com

Here's the one I did and sold.
 

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Karttekk

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The 80T I sold had a bad factory engine, cylinder was full of water. I had a 212 Predator engine I had repaired so I used it on the 80T. I used the flywheel, starter, charge coils, fan and shroud from the V Power Equipment kit on it, worked great. My customers are using it every day. Watch the video on V Power Equipment's site to learn how to swap everything over.
 
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