Torque converter questions

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

So I got this predator 212 engine and I bought a cheap eBay special torque converter. I feel like my angle is crazy but maybe it’s just me. What do you guys think?

also I have to raise the engine a minimum of 3 inches to accommodate the angle and the huge sprocket. I had to cut gussets off of the converter, grind down the hump for the oil cap and position it under the cap.

lastly how should I grease the torque converter?

 

[Denny]

You know you can move that plate to different positions right? You never use grease or oil on the clutch sliding parts! Use only dry lubes like powdered graphite.

 

[Master Hack]

Red brick are much more vibration resistant. Do yourself a favor and upgrade. Also ditch the yackagucci belt, you’ll be changing it in an hour anyway. Yack hair and rice fiber belts are junk.

 

[panchothedog]

I can hardly believe what I am looking at. They make mounting plates that let you slide the engine sideways. Also the plate can be clocked in various positions or angles. If you would have placed a washer around each of the bolts in between the plate and the engine you probably wouldn't have had to grind on your engine. You also didn't do your plate any favors by grinding off parts of the gussets. They help strengthen the boss that the jack shaft rides in. Have to say it doesn't look like you thought this out very well. Time line says you joined this forum 12 years ago. How old were you when you joined. I realize that's none of my business, but the brick under the engine looks like something a 10 year old kid would do.

 

[Rat]

So I got this predator 212 engine and I bought a cheap eBay special torque converter. I feel like my angle is crazy but maybe it’s just me. What do you guys think?

also I have to raise the engine a minimum of 3 inches to accommodate the angle and the huge sprocket. I had to cut gussets off of the converter, grind down the hump for the oil cap and position it under the cap.

lastly how should I grease the torque converter?

1. You need to rotate the CVT backplate counter clockwise 1 set of holes.

2. If that doesn't fix your issue completely You'll need a minibike CVT specific engine mount adapter (it lifts and tilts the engine slightly so that the backplate is off the lower frame rails.

Like this: https://www.ombwarehouse.com/torque-converter-riser-plate-with-hardware-tavplatev2.html

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Alot of karts came with a jackshaft plate that goes under the engine.

This allows chain adjustment and moves the driven further back, away from the axle sprocket.

I'm not saying this fits your needs, but looks like less money and work to me.

Clutch Mount with Jackshaft | 03191

www.bmikarts.com

 

[Rat]

I

Alot of karts came with a jackshaft plate that goes under the engine.

This allows chain adjustment and moves the driven further back, away from the axle sprocket.

I'm not saying this fits your needs, but looks like less money and work to me.

Clutch Mount with Jackshaft | 03191

www.bmikarts.com

It's painfully obvious that the chassis was originally set up for a bare bones centrifugal unit probably slapped in a Briggs or Tecumseh flatty which is also what a majority of the minibikes used to use before EPA started down on the flathead engines about as hard as they did 2cycle.
Pretty sure even most new pushmowers manufactured now are all OHV or battery operated.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I

It's painfully obvious that the chassis was originally set up for a bare bones centrifugal unit probably slapped in a Briggs or Tecumseh flatty which is also what a majority of the minibikes used to use before EPA started down on the flathead engines about as hard as they did 2cycle.
Pretty sure even most new pushmowers manufactured now are all OHV or battery operated.

Oh, sorry.
I Didn't realize it was so obvious.

Looks like a live axle, heavy kart to me. I dont remember to many of those with centrifugal clutches from the factory.

 

[panchothedog]

I have posted a pictures ( not very good ) of two of my karts showing the plate that allows you to move the engine sideways. These, or the part linked by
RLS Underground will solve your problem. I like the plate I used better because it keeps the engine lower. It can be purchased at the same place.

 

[Rat]

Oh, sorry.
I Didn't realize it was so obvious.

Looks like a live axle, heavy kart to me. I dont remember to many of those with centrifugal clutches from the factory.

It may not have specifically had a flathead, but it definitely has a solid axle and where the original engine plate is located leaves no room for more than a centrifugal

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

I can hardly believe what I am looking at. They make mounting plates that let you slide the engine sideways. Also the plate can be clocked in various positions or angles. If you would have placed a washer around each of the bolts in between the plate and the engine you probably wouldn't have had to grind on your engine. You also didn't do your plate any favors by grinding off parts of the gussets. They help strengthen the boss that the jack shaft rides in. Have to say it doesn't look like you thought this out very well. Time line says you joined this forum 12 years ago. How old were you when you joined. I realize that's none of my business, but the brick under the engine looks like something a 10 year old kid would do.

The brick was just to see how high I potentially would have to lift the engine at its current torque converter tilt.

just was to give me a chance to step back and reevaluate.

 

[Rat]

The brick was just to see how high I potentially would have to lift the engine at its current torque converter tilt.

just was to give me a chance to step back and reevaluate.

A typical CVT install sits with the center to center on the shafts nearly horizontal with the driven pulley jackshaft center hight just above engine mount deck of the block... remove the driver and rotate your nonsense angle

 

[biddie_gibbs2.0]

I was over complicating things. I think this is better! Thanks.

 

[Denny]

You’re doing better but there is still one little problem. Rubber motor mounts do not work. You will never be able to keep the engine from sliding around, chain from popping off. Please trust me and remove them.

 

[Rat]

You’re doing better but there is still one little problem. Rubber motor mounts do not work. You will never be able to keep the engine from sliding around, chain from popping off. Please trust me and remove them.

Found that out the hard way. There's definitely no isolator hard enough to keep chain tension and/or alignment from being an issue under load...not even steel sleeved gromet type ones similar to the bushings you'd find in old leaf springs.

I was over complicating things. I think this is better! Thanks.

Exactly what I meant by turning it a set of mount holes definitely on point.

 

[Snaker]

Found that out the hard way. There's definitely no isolator hard enough to keep chain tension and/or alignment from being an issue under load...not even steel sleeved gromet type ones similar to the bushings you'd find in old leaf springs.

The snowmobile world has been using rubber engine mounts with their CVT's forever.
While it does add some complexity, it certainly is doable.
Hope this pdf shows up

Page 5.37 shows two types of torque stops.
They allow the engine to twist on the mounts to a point
The left diagram shows the rubber mounts.

Page 5.36 shows another compensating adjustment
Point B shows a intentional gap to orient the pulleys from perfect parallel.
That also compensates for engine torque twist.

These are engines ranging from 30-150+ hp and they work.
Also, this orientation is within the CVT, no chains or other drivetrain involved on those.
But, the big but here is the back plate.
That ties the pulley orientation together, so that gap B can't be done.
A torque stop could still be added to limit the torque twist of the engine/CVT package vs drive chain.

With the CVT orientation angles, they can be 360 degrees around each other.
Many carts have the drive pulley aft of the driven.
All depends on what fits where, as long as the rules of orientation within the CVT are followed.

 

[Rat]

While it does add some complexity, it certainly is doable

It's really not with chain drive. Best of luck

 

[Snaker]

It's really not with chain drive. Best of luck

It really is.
The vast majority of chain drive motorcycles have rubber mounted engines
Chain drives do have a range of allowable misalignment.
If you've misadjusted a machine to be setting right on the edge of derailing, then of course any tiny increase will derail.
But a proper aligning will allow for some flexing.

 

[Denny]

We have seen dozens of people here try and fail with about every type of rubber mount available. From conveyor belting, rubber isolation mounts, hard rubber grommet type mounts and finally even wood. The big flaw I find with them is there is no way to add a mechanical way of limiting movement on the engine without cracking it. Therefore the engine will move allowing the engine to move too much.

 

[Rat]

It really is.
The vast majority of chain drive motorcycles have rubber mounted engines
Chain drives do have a range of allowable misalignment.
If you've misadjusted a machine to be setting right on the edge of derailing, then of course any tiny increase will derail.
But a proper aligning will allow for some flexing.

I'm known to do things precisely because someone said "It can't be done" just to force feed them a dose of sh!t pie.
This is one if those things where its not worth the trouble, and believe it or not will cause you twice as much vibration issues. Ive even seen guys cut the tread cap of car tires to use a a mat under the engine as well as use the tire rubber to make washers to complete the isolator set up making the engine float.... disaster every time.

If it vibrates that badly, something it loose plain and simple.
I used to have hard rubber isolators in the bar clamps of a bike and my mirrors vibrated beyond use and often kicked loose on me. I replaced the rubber with brass to make things fit pproperlyand cranked every thing down and that eliminated 90% of the vibration in my bars... my mirrors haven't randomly swung free since.

You're just going to be throwing money at a problem you created until your skull softens a bit and you accept the facts that this isn't something subjective like final drive ratio and torque figures where variables matter.