Torque converter pullys won't align

[Shambosley]

I'm wondering if anyone has had a torque converter be defected right out of the box or did my backplate just been within 2 hour's of riding it. Not only are my drive and driven pully not parallel, the driven sprocket seems to tilted outward a bit, it started smoking and shredding my best

 

[karl]

Pics or it didn't happen. What motor?

 

[itsid]

sounds like you have the worst of all gear ratios

but as karl said:
we need pics.. this time maybe more than ever.

'sid

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

Remove engine and inspect jackshaft mount. I ripped the welds on mine and it made the same issue your describing.

 

[Shambosley]

Yeah my gear ratios are stock from when the go kart was purchased 10 years ago and it's about 4:1. Ill post pictures tonight as I'm at work right now. Its a honda gx200 with a torque converter 30 series and I can see the difference between the front and back bullies but they should be aligned since it's all bolted to a backplate right?

---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------

@Whitetrashrocker I'll take a look at that, becuase it almost look like the jackshaft bolt itself was bent till I took the bolt out and it didnt seem to be bent.

 

[itsid]

wrong.. ONLY the driven is fixed to the backplate (at a fixed distance)
the driver needs to be aligned using shims and spacers to match the driven since it sits on the actualy engine's PTO shaft of course.. which's length is not identical amongst manufacturers models ..not even years of mfg...

so yeah, you need to adjust the drivers position yourself.

4:1??
tricky.. doable only for a lightweight kart with small wheels (11" not much more) ...
could it be that "the rider" gained significant weight over the course of said decade, or the wheels got a bit bigger (for the looks) and/or a combination of the two?

'sid

 

[Shambosley]

I would say that the ratio could be off only because of the research I've done says 6:1 is ideal, not because of anything that as changed over the decade that ive owned the go kart. Everything on the gokart is stock and the wheels are about 14 inches I know it's hard to help me without pictures of my problem which I will post soon but my main problem isn't that the two pulleys aren't parallel but that they are not perpendicular to each other as you'll see in the upcoming pictures that the driven sprocket leans outward, that's what im trying correct. And you are 100% correct that the driven sprocket is the only thing mounted to the backplate but the backplate mounts to the motor so in terms you would think that both pulleys would be perpendicular to each other not necessarily parallel. I must add that I am super glad to be speaking with somebody as I cannot find my problem on the internet which is very interesting...

 

[itsid]

the not being perpendicular thing might be a result of many things:

1) you missed to install the backplate properly (pic needed)
2) it's indeed deformed because of heavy abuse (Pic )
3) it's likely a chinese copy, and although they tend to work just fine and are commonly reliable..
it's still a chinese copy and you might have gotten the one in a thousand that's poorly made (Pic again I'm afraid)
4) misaligned sprockets can cause many issues, normally premature failure of the chain and sprockets, sometimes failure of the jackshaft bearings... *shrugs* (A pic could help though)

We like to help you out, we really do, but as you said it's hard without "seeing the problem"
I've seen people bolting the backplate on with one single bolt (that WILL fail)
all four are required to have a sturdy backplate!, all four need to be torqued down in order to not losen the bolts while driving (loctite )
etc.etc.
If we can see what's wrong, we can tell you what to take care of, what to fix.

For now, all explanation only can tell us so much about it... no matter how hard you try I'm afraid;
it's the two things you forgot to mention that might be key to finding a solution.

Yes, the backplate mounts to the engine, and thus should be perfectly perpendicular to the PTO shaft,
but only if you haven't messed up (forgotten bolt, a misplaced washer...)

Oh wait... waaaaaait..
you have the cast backplate don't you?
(the pressed sheet steel one is for mini bikes mostly and deforms rather easily under tough conditions like bad gear ratio or misaligned sprockets )

Again a Pic would've helped LOL (okay enough, I think you got the point by now )

Anyways, we're here, we'll figure it out and we can tell you how to fix your current issue as well as prevent it from happening again; but we need your arms, eyes and wallet to do so I'm afraid

'sid

 

[Shambosley]

Wish there was an easier way to communicate lol, I dont talk on forums often. Its a cast aluminum backplate which to me seems like it would bend much easier than steel and I havnt ran it hard in the measly 2 hours that ive had it installed. I did take some pictures but they dont show much as it was taken in the dark with flash lol I'll have to get them in the morning when the sun comes up. I am new to go karting/small engines and things definitely have not just, came together... I messaged the seller and they said the backplate is made of aluminum, a material that wont bend...that's what I do for work, bend aluminium lol

 

[Rail rider]

Post added at 09:55 PM :toetap05:

 

[Shambosley]

https://youtu.be/pLl8pe8Fco4 here is a link to a video I took of the setup, mind that it's dark ill post better pics or videos tomorrow's. For those who can't sleep take a look

 

[Kleyny]

When I fitted my TC to my (clone) gx200 I had to remove a fair bit of material at the oil dipstick area due to the backing plate of the TC not being flush on the crank case. Going by your video looks like your going have to do the same.

The best way I found to see if the pulleys are aligned is with a bit of twine, the twine should sit flush on both flat sides of both pulleys. I had to add a thin shim to my driver pulley to get mine to line up properly.

Neil
Ps. videos are good but photos are much better for thing like this as you can study whats going on a bit better.

 

[Shambosley]

Did you actually have to remove any of the iron off the engine at the oil fill or just plastic from the fill cap, because it almost looks as if the oil fill area of the motor pertrudes out farther than the flat of the crankcase

 

[Kleyny]

i had to remove some of the alloy as well, but not enough to make it leak oil.
I actually cut the finger piece right off the cap. I fill and check the oil from the other side so no big deal.

 

[Shambosley]

Okay well i shaved some off of the engine at the oil fill cap and the back plate seems to be resting flat against the crankcase. The drive and driven pully were not parallel, the driven pully was out farther than the drive pully. I couldn't pull the driven pully in more obviously, so I had to move the drive pully out more but with the washers I had on hand, I had to shim the drive and the driven with different size washer ofc to even out the pullys. My question now is, I only have about .187 from the endge of the drive inner sheave to the end of the pto shaft to where the hub wont just rest on the shaft without having the outter drive sheave on and shaft bolt on holding it together. Is .187 enough you think or is that cutting it close?

 

[Kleyny]

Photos?
Mine only has about 1/4" or so without a drama.

 

[Shambosley]

These were taken after shiming my driver pulley to come as close as I can to aligning both pulleys. As stated, there isnt much room from the inner sheave to the outside of the PTO shaft, wondering if this is enough? Also added some pictures of how the belt doesnt ride completely flush with the back of the inner drive sheave, as you can see it isnt touching towards the front of the sheave. Any suggestions or comments? Also dont think anyone answered my question about the belt, where GoPowerSports recommended 2 different belt sizes by 2 different customer service representatives. And the difference between the 2 belts recommended was .5" yet they said they should both work??? Kinda hard to believe..

 

[itsid]

Belts.. likely ONE belt they recommended was the 5959..
that's the WRONG ONE!
misconception is easily explained though..
one manufacturer labels their belts with 203589A / 5959
the first one (203589A) is the belt you need, the second one the Manco 5959
(ONLY Monco ever used that beltsize it's 0.4" bigger in circumference)

That manufacturer doesn't care (or doesn't know) and some shop representatives know too little to know and all they do is read the numbers off a list.

So.. 27" outer circumference belt is what you need (203589A is it's comet part number)

That being said:
Pics..
well you cannot see much of your alignment issue on the pics..
too close is as bad as too far away (fisheye effect of phone cam lenses ...)
No way to judge alignment of your belt or pulleys...

Anyways... yes that's a bit short (she said)
but it'll do (he replied)
At least that's what our Predator short shaft owners are telling;

Personally.. I'd find a spacer (i.e. a short section of 3/4" keyed and drilled shaft)
and have a fairly long key grab both and of course a long enough bolt to properly fix everything together.

'sid

 

[Shambosley]

No mine is a knockoff tav 30 series and they recommended belt #669 and #725 which I thought was odd because ive never seen those numbers on any forums

 

[itsid]

Since neither will fit!
669 and 725 are GY6 symmetric CV belts (V belts)
they cannot work with a series 30 (knockoff or not)

I bet you have a misconversation (one of you made a fatal flaw in said conversation... maybe you asked incorrectly, maybe both representatives misunderstood what you asked.. I can't tell or judge)

But both belts are just plain wrong!

'sid