Torque converter help

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TimmyStank73

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I have an old Comet 20 series TC. It is on my predator 212 that I have souped up with an air filter, header, bored jet, 8 degree timing key, and 18lb valve springs. Ive recently replaced the driven spring, the driver springs, and the face to the driver. So, my problem is, that the **** thing wants to get away from me as soon as the engine is fired up, as if the idle is too high. Ive adjusted the idle down to 1800 RPM and lower, to the point where the engine wont stay on its so low of an idle. I am at a loss of what to do at this point, besides just buying a new TC. And that may not even be the problem. Lubricant? Could it be the engine is too powerful for it? I don't know Please :(
 

TimmyStank73

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Im 99% sure I do. I ordered the same color that was on there originally, blue. Same with the driven spring, blue. Yeah, I double and triple checked the belt.
 

cavfire

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Make sure the hub driver slides freely in and out of the movable face. If it isn't the driver may not be releasing all the way. As far as lubrication it needs to be a dry lubricant. I use a graphite dry lubricant for the hub driver.
 

TimmyStank73

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Thanks for the reply. The hub moves freely and is definitsly clean. Could it be my governor? That's the ONLY thing I'm thinking at this point, as I'm not quite sure if I hooked it back up correctly
 

Joe-405

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The belt is loose right now when not running correct ? And post a pic !

---------- Post added at 10:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

And the belt only goes one direction also. If you didn't already know.
 

TimmyStank73

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Yes, the belt is loose, about an 1/8" to a 1/4". And the belt has an "engine this way" indicator, so I think I'm good there. Ill get some pics and hopefully a video up. Hopefully they'll help... I actually just went ahead and purchased another TC, as BMI has them nearly50% off. Either way, Id like to use this TC on another build, so I'm still interested in the help from the people around here. Thanks for the reply.:thumbsup:
 

itsid

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there you go!

You state you have a series 20 TC..
the belt is NOT unidirectional, it's symmetric so you ordered the wrong belt
(a series 30 belt is asymmetric and the one with the "engine this way" indicator)

chances are you also bought the wrong spring (a series 30 spring will fit a series 20 but will not work properly it's wound the other way around)
a series 20 driven typically runs inboard (cam facing towards the engine) a series 30 exclusively runs outboard (cam facing away from the engine)
you can get reverse wound springs for a series 20, but for all I know that is still NOT the same as a stock series 30 spring.

With your pics, please post a list of the parts (with comet part numbers if possible) you ordered;
that way we can identify a wrong part easily. (colors might not be consistent.. they should, but thanks to chinese replacements they aren't always)

'sid
 
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TimmyStank73

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It is the right belt, I just dont know why it says "engine this way", because it DEFINITELY is symmetrical and for a 20 series. Who knows.... My last hope and what I think is the problem is, I have a pre-'94 20 series and I just need the "belt spacers" (that I just ordered. But probably could have just gone with regular washers). Ive noticed that there is NO WAY for the belt to ride (idle) on the bronze bushing without some sort of spacers. Ive got some videos I made the other day, and Ill get those up soon. But, does that sound like something that could be causing all this **** grief?
 

bob58o

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Not familiar with the 20 series.

What are these belt spacers?
Can you link them? I just never saw washers around the bushing.
 

TimmyStank73

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Yep, itsid has the ones IM referring to linked above.

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

Ill get some up. Sorry for the delay.
 

TimmyStank73

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Well, I give up on trying to upload these videos. Im banking on these washers/spacers to help. The TC is very old, and all my research and observations point to the space in the driver being too narrow, so the belt is constantly against the sheaves creating the friction needed to drive it without correct RPM engagement. Ill update with some pictures and part #'s if the problem persists, once I get her all back together with the spacers. Im hoping youre wrong itsid ;) otherwise Im giving up on this TC crap altogether and just going regular ol' jackshaft. Since I already have the jackshaft in place, is it worth it to just setup a chained jackshaft dealio? Does it provide similar results as a TC?

---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

Heres the parts I ordered for the 20 series TC in question...

Item ID ITEMS
215698 Comet Blue Spring for 20 Series Driven

204714 Comet Retaining Ring for 20, 30 & Torq-A-Verter

011188 Replacement Springs for 20 & 30 Series Driver Color: Blue (011188)

202090 Comet Driver Drum for 20, 30 Series & TAV; 3/4" bore
 

TimmyStank73

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Well, IT WAS just those two pesky washers/spacers that were needed. She works like a charm now. Something for the vault maybe; that being that older 20 series NEED those 2 washers or else she'll want to get away at any RPM. But, as promised I've got the pictures up now.
 

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TimmyStank73

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and some more.... Shes a beaut, aint she ;)
 

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itsid

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Hi, thanks for the pics!

(I actually learned that comet now print's "engine this way" on symmetric belts... who'd thought)

Now, from the pics it seems like your belt is a bit tight and your chain a tad lose...
but let's get to the creeping kart..

first make sure that your Center-Center-distance is set correctly, if the belt is too tight the bronze bushing is not enough to get rid of the friction;
this could be the issue already.
I'm quite convinced you bought the exact same belt that was on there so it "should" be good.
but IIRC you removed the engine recently.. for governor removal and such..
so double check that and if necessary move the engine back a bit (towards the jackshaft).

if you did check that already double check the driven unit (the spring)
make sure it's properly preloaded.
(and the spring is tightened [i.e. sheave moved CCW] before pushing the cam down)
look from the left rear wheel (cam on the back of the driven unit);
the rubber button must be coming from the right side touching the cam!

that's the only thing I cannot see on your pics ;)

And if you checked that as well;
make sure you set the engine idle speed correctly.. sometimes it just want's to rev a hair too high engaging the driver.
best: unhook the throttle cable from the butterfly, to make sure it's not a sticking cable or messed return spring or such.. then check your idle speed to be indeed 1800 +/- 50 rpms
After checking/adjusting the carb reconnect the throttle cable and see if that helped.

if not.. the last thing I could think of ATM
is worn out garter springs (or a wrong set)
so open up your driver again, unhook the garter springs and check.
they MUST NOT BE longer than 7 7/8" and the correct ones should have blue ends.

They determine the engagement speed, which for a series20 and 30 can be set as low as 1200 rpms (with the zinc weights) and black springs
which is too low for your current idle speed.
2200 rpm eng. speed for the blue springs is what you're after.

'sid
 

TimmyStank73

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Thanks a lot for all the help with this, but its working well now. All it needed was those washers. They created JUST the right amount of space to keep the belt off the sheaves and for the belt to ride on the bushing at idle. Thanks again!!
 
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