The new 420cc Predator

[supermanotorious]

Ok friends, STRANGE THINGS ARE AFOOT with the newest rendition of the 420cc engine from Harbor Freight. The valve cover is totally different and there's a weird black air? filter under the valve cover messing with the space I put batteries on my winches.

I've de-governed one of these and it doesn't work as smoothly as its predecessor. Now on to that weird black filter. The vent at the top of the gas tank feeds into it, then it returns the line into the air filter assembly.

I looked in the user manual to find out what it is called and guess what- there is no mention of it in the parts list or exploded view. I copied that page of the manual to create an image and share it with you on here. Then the real mystery, when copied and pasted, you see the filter on the exploded view...... as part number 109 below in my images. WTF?? Click HERE for the manual and you'll see what I mean on page 21.

My main question, do you think its fine to bypass the filter and simply route the gas tank vent direct to the air filter assembly? Either way that filter has to go. None of my other 420cc engines have had a gas tank vent so I should be fine plugging it.

On one hand I think this could be the EPA "California" version of the engine but why the heck am I getting it in Arizona if so???

 

[firemanjim]

Ditch that filter crap thing whatchamacallit........ You don't need it.... It's the EPA's way of screwing everything up......
Run the line back to the filter...

 

[supermanotorious]

Hmm, well this IS certainly the EPA version, not sure why I got it.

 

[Badot]

The black filter on the valve cover is an oil separator. Oil separators go on crankcase vents that are prone to blowing oil out... oil gets 'caught' in the filter and drips back down into the engine. What's left after the oil separator is blowby, which tends to contain raw, unburned gasoline -- bad for the environment, so it gets routed back into the airbox to be recirculated and burned. The line coming off the gas tank should run to that black box under the valve cover which looks to be a charcoal box -- this absorbs any gas fumes that escape and holds them until the engine runs again, which sucks them through the intake.

 

[zbuck]

That piece on the gas tank looks like the block vent on the Tecumseh vertical shaft engines. I with firemanjim, ditch the darn things. But then again the EPA police might be around the corner. Maybe that engine is for Calif. to comply with CARB and the EPA rules?

 

[Unit 91]

firemanjim is right. if i am understanding correctly, from your description and the pictures, your saying it goes from the fuel tank to the intake?
if that is true then its the epa being pains in the rear. it is from what i can see the equivalent of a cars evaporative emissions system. which basically take the fuel vapors that build up inside the tank and instead of allowing them to vent into the air it vents them into the intake. it is for emissions but on a car they also use it to help get a complete burn in the combustion phase. if that is correct then you should be able to just block off all linesand remove the "filter crap thing whatchamacallit" as jim so nicely put it.

 

[java230]

Yep emissions crap. ditch it!!

 

[Badot]

I'd like to note that it's very likely that the gas cap on that engine fully seals rather than vents. In which case if you block off the vent on top of the tank it may cause vacuum lock while running and also have the potential to make it force gas out the carb as the tank heats up and pressure builds. Test before simply capping it off.

 

[firemanjim]

Badot is on a roll!
You can't just cap it off. The cap does in fact seal, in order for the emissions crap to work. Route that hose back to the filter, or stick a fish tank air stone in the hose. Will act as a filter......

 

[ML-TOYS]

My duramax 16hp has a setup like those. Was gonna ask when i was ready to use it what they are.

 

[rmm727]

Pull the valve cover while your at it. Being that the valve cover is different that the other 420's, I'd wonder if this one has shaft mounted rockers or is hemi headed

 

[Mrbirmi]

I read on another forum for golf carts, if it is model #60349, is the hemi head version of the 420.

 

[machinist@large]

Jee's Louise, guy's we cleared this up in Jan./Feb. when I scored a different model with the same charcoal evap canister mounted under a false cover on the gas tank. If you deleted the charcoal can with all the line's, then you probably messed with the tank venting.

As for other differences in the engine, I don't have one in front of me, so I can't say. I'd say reroute the line's and relocate the can and call it good.

And it's not the "new" 420; they had stacks of that exact model when I scored the older display model for the soon to be discontinued one.

 

[supermanotorious]

hmmm, does it seem that HF only has EPA 420cc engines now?

EDIT:

machinist is correct, HERE is the link to our last conversation, I didn't remember it though, I wonder why they relocated the filter, maybe for more gas capacity

 

[OzFab]

IMO, removing or rerouting the lines to bypass the filter could have a detrimental effect on the running of the engine; if possible, leave it all intact & simply reposition the filter... or your battery...

 

[supermanotorious]

alright alright! how is this for sheer awesomeness?!?!?!? I went to HF to buy a 420cc engine for an order that came in today, I was also ready to FINALLY buy their big boy hydraulic metal cutting band saw

the clerk took me back in the warehouse and I realized that yes, they are only going to be selling EPA engines, we must go with the version that offers the full gas tank and filter under the valve cover, if not you'll sacrifice gas tank

one of the display engines was a 11hp version and I noticed there was no filter but still the gas tank vent, I traced it and it went straight to the air cleaner housing where the filter feeds back to so that tells me its fine to remove the charcoal filter and one of the hoses, then route the vent to the air box

I made a small fuss about HF phasing out the non-EPA versions and the clerk said there were some clearance engines I might be interested in

she had (2) 11 hp engines for $100 each! I asked "$100?" with excitement in my voice, she mistook it for disgust and replied "ok, I can do $80" to which I said, "I'll take them both"

I will likely sell them but who knows, couldn't pass them up at that price

And my oldest daughter and I had to get creative to get that heavy saw out of the truck but we sure did it, its a shame I'm too exhausted to set up my new tool...

 

[landuse]

It looks like your carport has accumulated some stuff since we last saw it when you put the awning up

Awesome purchases!!!!

 

[n3480h]

Nice find, Super. My new Duromax 7hp also has the tank vent and rockerbox vent. When I changed out the air filter to an angled pod type, I had to do a little machine work to add tube fittings to route the vent tubes back into the carb. No big deal. Everything works fine. I guess if the rockerbox vents a little oil mist the engine will get a bit of upper cylinder lubrication. Checking the plug shows a good burn and no oil residue. Happy happy.

 

[supermanotorious]

looking at the pictures, I think I'll remove most of the links of chain on the engine hoist so that I have a few more inches of clearance height....

 

[machinist@large]

The charcoal can is there to capture evaporated fumes from the fuel tank when the engine is sitting idle (not running). It soaks them up until you start the engine, then controllably release them into the intake to be burned.

It's there to control greenhouse gas emissions from idle engine's; for it to work, the gas cap has to be non venting. Plumbing the vent line directly to the intake should work, but I've never tried it.

Nice score on the engine's; I used to own the original Taiwanese version of the band saw, and with some minor tuning it worked well. To bad for me it was one of the more saleable items last year when the crunch hit. When I scored a major super coupon, I snatched up a 4X6 model to replace it.

I owned an older 4x6 model before the 6x10; the same design flaws are still there in HF's; I bought it the same way you would buy a kit. The basics are there, but it requires purchaser's input for proper and complete assembly. And since I use the company saw's on a daily basis, I haven't gotten really serious about it yet.

Now, for your saw. Run only bi-metalic blade's in it; select the pully setup that let's you run 120 to 150 fpm blade speed for mild steel. Also, unless you're going to use it several hours a day, every day, don't waste your time with the coolant system. Instead, track down one of your local tooling supply house's, and purchase a tooling lube wax stick. You're looking for the softer, lower melting point type; pop the caps on the type's they have, you want the soft one that when you scratch at it it both sticks to the end of your finger and you have trouble getting it out from under your fingernail.

I have to warn you that you're going to have a mess with both types of blade lube; it's just that my personal experience the wax stick is way cheaper & easier to work with for a small band saw. First, you don't have to deal with the cost of disposal of the old/used liquid coolant. Second, for a small operator (as well as a lot of big operators) your machine most of the time will never be pushed to capacity. Third, once you get the hang of the way to use one of these less fashionable ways to keep your saw in good trim, a wax stick will last you years.

Proper use: if running in cutoff mode, lift the head frame to top of stroke. Start the blade, and gently brush the end of the stick against the teeth. Let the blade make a couple of rev's. You're looking to coat the teeth and almost fill in the gullets between the teeth for a new blade. Keep your feed rate extremely slow when you near the work piece, and keep it there until you get a feel for how to run it.

It's hard to try and explain how to run a band saw in words: it's even worse when you've spent years in production, and the fine details can't be learned from a YouTube video.......