suitable mixture

Status
Not open for further replies.

KieranM

Doin It!!
Messages
1,409
Reaction score
3
Location
Kilkenny, Ireland
well,
Im new to minimotos/ pitbikes and just had a quick question. What would be a suitable fuel mixture ratio for a 47cc 2 stroke engine. Is it different to strimmers and the like or are they along the same ratios?
Thanks
 

Kaptain Krunch

Pro Junk Collector
Messages
4,636
Reaction score
4
Location
vermont
Quick google search says 25:1 when breaking in a new motor then 50:1. I would go 40:1 and see how she runs.
 

Kaptain Krunch

Pro Junk Collector
Messages
4,636
Reaction score
4
Location
vermont
run what the oil recomends not necisarily the engine

no oil i have ever bought recommended the mix, besides those little chainsaw 50:1 bottles. But what happens when your engine needs 32:1 mix and you put in 50:1? its always best to follow the manufacturer, they tend to know what there engines like.
 

robin

New member
Messages
584
Reaction score
0
Location
in a house
my bike recomends a 60 :1 but the oil i run recomends not going above 50 :1, some oils I have tried recomend 100:1 modern sinthetic oils are alot better now anouther thing to concider is that changeing the mix ratio also changes the jetting so running a high oil content could make the motor run leaner and hoter than normal
 

Kenny_McCormic

Kartless....
Messages
4,537
Reaction score
11
Location
Michigan Troll
Smell that? You smell that?

What?

2 strokes, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that.

I love blue smoke clouds and the smell of castor oil in the morning, smells like, like pissed off environmentalists.
 

SpyGuy

Hooligan
Messages
406
Reaction score
1
Location
Tucson, Arizona
no oil i have ever bought recommended the mix, besides those little chainsaw 50:1 bottles. But what happens when your engine needs 32:1 mix and you put in 50:1? its always best to follow the manufacturer, they tend to know what there engines like.

Not necessarily. I've picked up several engines that were run at 50:1, and were seized from too little oil. But, that's what the manufacturer recommended ...

I personally run 32:1, even though the manufacturer "recommends" 50:1. That's just way too chintzy on oil .... I'd rather blow a little smoke than blow the engine.
 

Kaptain Krunch

Pro Junk Collector
Messages
4,636
Reaction score
4
Location
vermont
It has something to do with oil too, if your running high quality synthetic then mix 50:1, but if you got cheepo waly world stuff it would be better to run a thicker mix.
 

Kenny_McCormic

Kartless....
Messages
4,537
Reaction score
11
Location
Michigan Troll
Most older (pre 60s) stuff calls for 10:1 or maybe 16:1 if you are lucky, it is my belief that oil mixes only got thinner because people cannot handle changing spark plugs anymore.
 

Linksep

New member
Messages
149
Reaction score
1
Location
Twin Cities, Minnesota
Read the article I linked to. Suppose you have an engine designed to run 40:1 mix. If you run 24:1 it will be lean with the risk of getting hot or pinging because the oil displaces the gas and makes the gas thick so less fuel will flow through the jet; you need a bigger jet to richen it back up if running more oil than the engine manufacturer calls for. If you run it 60:1 it's going to be rich and foul your plug (at which point most people are going to reduce the oil even further and make the problem worse).

The article also mentions octane. Oil reduces the effective octane of the gas so you should probably make a habit of running premium gas in any 2-stroke to avoid preignition. If you for some reason decide you're going to run a 20:1 mix in an engine designed for 50:1 mix you had better step up a jet size or two and run 110 octane race gas. If you decide you're going to run 100:1 mix (some super-duper synthetic castor low ash ultra lubricity thing that costs you $50/quart) you had better step down a jet size or two to avoid fouling the plug, and might be able to use mid-grade, or even low-grade pump gas without detonation.

Finally the article relates mix ratios to engine size stating that it is likely better to run more oil in smaller engines and less oil in large engines. The reasoning is that small engines rev higher and are under considerably more stress so they need more lubrication than a large lazy engine.
 

Russ2251

AZUSA:Powered by LAWN-BOY
Messages
6,622
Reaction score
41
Location
Huntington Station, Long Island, NY
it will be lean with the risk of getting hot or pinging because the oil displaces the gas and makes the gas thick so less fuel will flow through the jet
Am curious as to why some 2 cycle engine manufacturers recommend a heavier oil mix during the so called "break-in period".
Why would engineers recommend a heavier mix knowing that it's detrimental to the life span of the engine? Or do they expect jets to be changed out when going to the normal mix after break-in.
Something's fishy and am not buying into it. Not yet.
As usual, I could be dead wrong.
 

Linksep

New member
Messages
149
Reaction score
1
Location
Twin Cities, Minnesota
It's like those drug commercials on TV... "For some patients the benefits out-weigh the risks..." If the motor calls for 50:1 with the first tank or two at 40:1 that's not much difference; most stock motors are going to be slightly on the rich side anyway to provide some margin of safety.

I have nothing to back this up in any way, but it's my opinion that if your motor is designed to run 40:1 you'd be ok anywhere from 32:1 to 50:1. Changing the mix WILL change the A/F ratio so at least be aware of that. Now if your engine is designed to run 40:1 and you want to do something extreme like run 20:1 or 100:1 then be prepared to have fueling issues or possibly detonation until you re-jet to compensate for your changes.

EDIT: So I just went and read an article by Gordon Jennings about mix ratios and it jived pretty close with the article I linked earlier. In his (1978) article testing mixtures of 15:1, 20:1, and 30:1. The article/test found 15:1 to be the best in terms of peak HP, engine cleanliness, and cylinder wear. The article also mentions having to change carburetor jetting for the non-OEM approved mixture ratios. In a nut-shell more oil=more lubrication BUT you need to fatten up the carb. Less oil=less lubrication, needs leaner carb. No matter the mix there shouldn't be any plug fouling issues if your carb jetting is right and you have proper compression and spark.

Take it with a grain (or fist full) of salt. That article tested various mix ratios using the same Castrol 40R castor oil for all ratios. On the last page of the article they mention using non-castor oils at or very close to the mix ratio called for by the OIL producer, not the ENGINE manufacturer. A lot has happened in the last 32 years when it comes to oil chemistry and the materials and manufacturing processes used in modern engines, but I think the basics are still sound.

I just did a quick check and Amsoil has 2 different oils for different mix ratios; one oil for 50:1 and lower mix ratios, one oil for up to 100:1 mix ratio. All the Valvoline oils I saw are rated (by Valvoline) for use in 11:1 to 150:1 mix ratios. Klotz has one oil for 40:1 or 50:1, another oil for 32:1 or 40:1, another oil for 16:1 or 20:1, yet another oil that specifically warns never to mix it oilier than 50:1

Ugh, Edit #2: So after re-reading the thread it appears (based on my research) that everyone that has posted this far is right (in different aspects). :wai:

I would say to the OP: Find out what your motor calls for. Look at the gas cap, or find an owners manual on the internet for your brand of engine. Use the mix called out in the manual, OR add more oil to the mix, BUT adjust your carb accordingly if you want to run a heavier mix. If the engine calls for 50:1 mix then a 32:1 mix is likely to make it last longer (and maybe even make more power from reduced friction) IF you adjust the carb accordingly.
 

SpyGuy

Hooligan
Messages
406
Reaction score
1
Location
Tucson, Arizona
The gas caps on the two-strokers don't say what to run, at least not the ones I have. The "owner's manual" is a mixture of Chinese and poorly-written English (no, I'm not making this up, either), and doesn't really give much helpful information. supposedly, it DOES say somewhere in there to run 25:1 break-in, afterwards 50:1. To me, that's just WAY too big a drop on oil., so I run 32:1. Admittedly, I'm also running a 70 jet in my carburetor, not the stock 64.
 

KieranM

Doin It!!
Messages
1,409
Reaction score
3
Location
Kilkenny, Ireland
Thanks for all the help lads. i put a bit of 50:1 in her yesterday and she started 2nd pull. Its running perfect on 50:1. I will try to get up a video of her running. Slight choke issues though but thats easily resolved. I had to change the pipe from the fuel filter as the end had perished and i didnt notice till she cut out for no reason.....(oh joy)

Thanks for the help
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top