Struggling Go Kart

wyshadow

wyshadow
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I recently got my Yerfdog Spiderbox going and
I noticed the motor struggles at acceleration.

I already have a 72 tooth rear sprocket and
a torque converter from BMI. I have the 10
tooth front sprocket in the torque converter
but I still want to go to a lower gear ratio to
help out the 212 predator motor.

I looked around online I can't find a bigger
rear sprocket and it looks like I can't go smaller
for the front.

I do have a brand new DuroMax 18 hp motor
but I want to first upgrade the motor before
I install it on the go kart and this will take take
me several months to get all the parts I need
because I would rather do everything to the
motor the first time.

I know I could lose some weight but this will take
me several months to do.

The rear axle is 1 inch and I'm wondering if I could
piece together a larger sprocket. I saw I could
buy an 80 tooth rear sprocket but it looks like it
bolts on to a hub. I hope what I'm trying to explain
makes sense to someone.
 

itsid

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first:
use paragraphs, since walls of text are a PITA to read!
That makes it more likely for someone to actually read you post and answer your question.

Now, issues...

a ten tooth driver on the TC (what TC? series 30, 40?)
is usually a #40 41 sprocket
a 72T axle sprocket is most often a #35 sprocket
and mismatching chain pitch is rather impossible to mount.

Soo, could it be, that your TC sprocket has 12 Teeth, not 10?
(which makes it a significantly different gear ratio)
or -also not totally unlikely- you miscounted the teeth on the axle sprocket by mistake?

Then, what is the wheel size (outer diameter) of your rear wheels
and the approximate total weight (kart plus all passengers)?

since with a series 30, say 500 lbs and 16" wheels a 12->72 (6:1 ratio) will start to struggle.
and with the same TC & weight and 20" wheels a 10->72 (7.2:1 ratio) would struggle similarly.

Now, there are 9 and even 8T C-type #40 sprockets that fit some TC jackshafts.
like this: https://www.mfgsupply.com/az2182.html

but in order to dial in your gear ratio a bit better,
we'd need the rear wheel diameter and
a good approximation of the kart's total weight.

Now.. swapping to a 18horse duromax means you will need to swap to a series 40 TC if you do not already have one.
And you will most certainly be able to run a different gear ratio thanks to the additional engine torque.

'sid

PS it's actually a good idea to run the sprocket with a seperate hub,
that way a worn out sprocket can be replaced with a new one without the hassle of realigning the two and with split sprockets even without removing the axle..

PPS wait the spiderbox is a gy6.... show some pictures of your kart please
 

wyshadow

wyshadow
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This is the torque converter I have:
https://www.bmikarts.com/Torque-Converter-for-35-41-Chain-34-Bore-TAV2-Replacement_p_2382.html
Is there a different torque converter that would work better?

Just guessing here but the weights are:
kart - 300 lbs
me - 260 lbs
my daughter - 35 lbs
total = 595 lbs

The diameter of the rear wheels is about 18.5 inches.
I really don't want to change the rear tires right now,
and run as is.

I counted the rear teeth of the sprocket correctly.
 

itsid

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wow right on the edge...

KartInfo by kartcalc.net:
Code:
[FONT="Verdana"]
[B][U]KART[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]RW diameter[/I]: [B] 46.99 cm | 18.5 in[/B]
[I]Total weight[/I]: [B] 270 kg | 595.25 lbs[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]ENGINE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Original HP[/I]: [B] 6.5[/B]
[I]Asummed HP[/I]: [B] ~6.5[/B]
[I]Torque[/I]: [B] 12.86 Nm | 9.48 ft lbf[/B]
[I]RPM[/I]: [B] 3600[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]TRANSMISSION[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Final ratio[/I]: [B] 7.2:1[/B]
[I]TC type[/I]: [B]  series 30 6" driven[/B]
[I]Lowest ratio[/I]: [B] 19.44:1[/B]
[I]Highest ratio[/I]: [B] 6.48:1[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]PERFORMANCE[/U][/B]
[INDENT][I]Max Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 250 Nm | 184.39 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Min Wheel Torque[/I]: [B] 83.33 Nm | 61.46 ft lbf[/B]
[I]Acceleration[/I]: [B] 2.24 m/s² | 7.35 ft/s²[/B]
[I]Top Speed[/I]: [B] 49.21 km/h | 30.58 mph[/B]
[/INDENT]
[B][U]PROBLEMS[/U][/B]
[INDENT][B]You might burn your clutch/belt![/B]
[B]Gear ratio too high![/B]
[I]Suggested final ratio[/I]: [B] at least 7.3:1[/B]
[/INDENT]
[/FONT]
guessed weight isn't too accurate usually; but let's stick with that for now.

my calculator is very conservative with numbers, just to keep the belt/clutch alive for as long as possible.
Oh and that is ONROAD and mostly level ground calculations.
In any case you should see slightly increased beltwear but it still should work.

if it's not, it's not impossible that your engine has a minor powerloss
and/or some of the rotating parts are binding where they shouldn't.
(like from an overtightend chain, or seized bearing)

in case you bought the TAv2 kit new (a series 30 btw.. unsuitable for the duromax I'm afraid)
and just recently, we can rule out much of an issue with that..

still I'd like you to check the belt orientation carefully!
(since we've seen belts with flipped markings so the arrows pointed in the wrong direction)
the angled belt face must point outboard (away from the engine)
just to be sure that's not what's causing troubles.
that's rather easy to do and shouldn't take more than maybe a minute.

if that's okay, I'd remove the belt for a minute, jack up the rear and spin the rear wheels,
to make sure there's no binding in the axle bearings, brake, chain, jackshaft etc.
So everything apart from the engine is actually quickly tested to rotate smoothly that way.

And then it's in fact starting to get nasty, since if that engine lost power, it can be due to several causes..
compression loss, intake leakage, incorrect valve lash, incorrect fuel/air ratio, clogged exhaust..
and so on

IDK how old that 212 is by now, and how much has been done to it so far.
if that oil is reasonably fresh, then leave it alone else I'd suggest fresh oil,
but in both cases, check the 'old' oil ..
in case of a compression loss due to failed piston rings,
you can often get a smell of gasoline and a watery oil.

if that's good, let's first check for a intake leak..
get a can of brake cleaner and with the engine warmed up and idling,
spray some on the intake manifold (cover the gaskets too)
if the engine starts to rev up, you got a leak and likely need to get new gaskets
seldomly retightening the manifold bolts does the trick already, but take care to not strip the threads trying.

if you aint got no leak,
remove the spark plug!

if you got a compression tester,
use it and report (60-80 psi I think should be read can't recall atm)

check the spark plug insulators color (it should be a nice tan colour)
any lighter and you need to increase the amount of fuel,
any darker and you need to decrease the amount of fuel.
When in doubt, post a pic of it and let us decide ;)
(sometimes it needs as little as a good clean of the airfilter ;))

If that's also okay, check valve lash.. bring the engine to TDC (spark plug still reoved)
then check valve lash (0.1-0.15mm IN 0.15-0.2mm OUT I think it should be)

And if that still does not reveal any "problem" then check the throttle control too;
remove the belt (to prevent the kart from moving)
and with a warmed up idling engine,
press the throttle pedal BY HAND gently.. check if it feels sticky
(a sharp bent sleeve or so can cause problems)
and hear if the engine is revving up nice and smooth.

shut the engine off again, and get your daughter to help.
let her press the throttle down (pedal to the metal) and check at the engine, that the butterfly is opening all the way (air filter removed)


And if that still doesn't reveal anything.. I'm afraid
the engine should still be fine,
so we're back at the weight thingy (gear ratio change)
you can put the front axle on a bathroom scale (with the help of a 2x4 ;))
and then do the same with the read axle and add the two values.
that should yield a more or less accurate result of the kart's weight.

Sure a few more teeth on the axle sprocket won't hurt..
but if you're guess is at least close, again.. 7.2:1 shouldn't cause a kart to struggle.
(again on road and on almost level ground)

In case you need the kart to climb some hilly backyard terrain, you might want to swap to a 8:1 ratio for that engine

if you don't want to buy a sprocket hub for the axle,
to mount a 80T sprocket, you can achieve the exact same result (8:1 gear ratio)
with a 9T TC sprocket and your current 72axle sprocket.
https://www.mfgsupply.com/gomini/go...tsdrive/gominisprocketsdrive58c40/az2180.html
(that should fit the Tav2 Kit IIRC it uses a 5/8" jackshaft)

'sid
 
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BigWes

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Sid has given you every thing you need to know, but honestly that thing should pull your kart just fine the way you have it set up. Have you made sure your throttle stop screw has been turned all the way out? It is the spring loaded screw on top of the throttle plate next to where you attached your cable.
 

wyshadow

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Sid,
Thank you for your help. I just ordered the 8 tooth
sprocket and this should help out the engine a lot.
I took the front sprocket off and it does have 10 teeth,
5/8 drive shaft, and 3/16 key way. So this 8 tooth
should work.

This kart does cruise at a faster speed I would like
on the pavement and I do want it to go slower for
safety reasons and to relieve stress off the motor.

I don't need this kart to cruise at 30 mph and I
would prefer it to go 15 mph.

Before I installed the 212 engine, I had a small
engine mechanic tune the engine for me and he
said it runs perfect.

If I have time this weekend, I'll follow your steps
to check the engine again. I will have to either
buy a compression tester or if I can, rent one from
a local auto store.
 

wyshadow

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Just an update for those who care. I installed
the 8 tooth sprocket to the torque converter,
finished installing the lights, mounting the battery,
and moving the on/off switch under the steering wheel.

The 8 tooth sprocket is perfect and giving the
kart tons of low-end torque but still plenty of
top-end speed. All I need to do is mount the fire
extinguisher and install an in-line fuel filter.

Excuse the messy garage.
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wyshadow

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I took the Yerf Dog to my wife's family's farm this past weekend.
My wife and I drove around the farm with our little girls.
It was so much fun to finally drive around this kart until
I decided to test the max speed.

I was alone in the kart and I left my phone at the house
because I was afraid of it falling out of my pocket. I decided
to see how fast this kart would go by flooring the pedal
down a dirt road. I got up to about 40 mph until the motor
kicked into high gear. I thought I lost the gear chain linkage
but instead the drive belt on the torque converter blew into
tiny pieces all over the road. I had to push the kart about a
half a mile to a safe spot to hide the kart and ran back
another half mile to get the truck and trailer.

On my run, another driver pulled up and said he
saw me pushing the kart down the dirt road and said he was
going back to the kart to make sure no one was going to
steal it. I thank him but I thought it would've been nicer if he
would've given me ride to the truck. Oh well, the kart was a
blast for two days. Next time I'll make sure to have spares
or to not test the max speed again.
 

bob58o

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Just know that at 40mph, you are turning around 6k rpms.

18.5" Tires = 4.84' circumference
72 :8 = 9 :1
with 30 series 0.9 :1 Overdrive 9 :1 becomes 8.1 :1 fully shifted

5900 RPM = 40 mph.

I always used an impact gun to install my driver units and never had one fly apart. I turn my driver units 7k, 8k+ rpms.

EDIT: I see now it says BELT. I've had chunks of belt hit me in the leg. Buy good belts. Cheap Chinese belts are perhaps 1/3 the price of a good belt, but you'll need to replace them more often. I think somebody did a test and showed that good belts did not last 3x as long. So it may be more cost effective to buy a bunch of cheap belts at once, but you'll be down more often.

Either way, make sure you buy more than 1 belt so you have a back up or two.

203589A if you have the tav with backplate.
https://www.gokartsupply.com/tcbelts.htm

BMI offers 669 (473669) and 725 (473725) belts. I don't know what those numbers mean. I know Alex talks about them often. I just order Comet belts using Comet part numbers.
 
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