Steering Adjustments

[USAMAC]

I was searching through the forums for what I am sure a topic that has been covered plenty; Steering! I'd like to adjust and improve the steering on my Dingo Fox 2x5 LXT but the link I found in this thread: Stearing Problem. It says that it's been closed from further comments, so I could not request more info there. Here's the THREAD that they were trying to reference that I can no longer access. I'd really love to read up on it so I can assess my options and consider the different suggestions for how to improve the steering on my kart. Thanks

Here's a pic of the front end for reference, but will have to get better pics later. Maybe even a video of it in action, I could just be being too picky!

 

[Functional Artist]

Maybe look up/search Ackerman steering

 

[Karttekk]

Are there grease fittings on the spindles? Usually people don't grease them and they bind up. Maybe pop the steering rods off of the spindles and see if they're free. Check all of the ball joints I guess you could call them on the ends of the steering rods for binding. Set the tire pressures correctly. The steering on these karts is tricky, the karts dive left or right quickly if you aren't paying attention.

 

[USAMAC]

Maybe look up/search Ackerman steering

Cool thanks, that's just what I needed to start sourcing more material on it! I did start browsing through the DIY articles here on the home page that I had not paid any attention to until after I posted this yesterday. I now will be getting more educated on everything, even if those archives are a tad dated.

Are there grease fittings on the spindles? Usually people don't grease them and they bind up. Maybe pop the steering rods off of the spindles and see if they're free. Check all of the ball joints I guess you could call them on the ends of the steering rods for binding. Set the tire pressures correctly. The steering on these karts is tricky, the karts dive left or right quickly if you aren't paying attention.

Thanks for this! I ended up taking a video and paying around with it some more once I had time yesterday.

One area of play I found was the lower point where the steering shaft ties into I guess what is the Pit Arm for me? It has some play there, but I cannot see any kind of nut or broken weld to adjust or mend. Please let me know if there's another option there to tighten up the steering shaft.

Can you tell me if the amount of play in my tie rods is normal where the ball joints are? The tie rots are pretty tight as far as when I grab them and shift left and right on them specifically, but it appears the ball joints have some play. I am thinking I might need to adjust how the tie rods are lined up to the ball joint to take some of that play out.

Here's a video attempting to showcase the things I've described in this comment.

 

[Functional Artist]

Yup, that looks like the usual "play" that's in most go kart's steering after their used a bit

You could replace the "tie rod ends" (IMO they really don't need to be replaced)
...but, it would only end up being a little bit tighter, for a little bit (until they get worn, like they are now)

To adjust the steering, I usually start by aligning the front wheels with the rear wheels
...just use a couple of (straight) boards

Once the fronts are aligned with the rears
...then, "toe" 'em in just a bit (which means to adjust both wheels to point inwards, just a bit)
...& give 'er a try

Here is a video I made years ago on making & installing tie rods

 

[USAMAC]

Yup, that looks like the usual "play" that's in most go kart's steering after their used a bit

You could replace the "tie rod ends" (IMO they really don't need to be replaced)
...but, it would only end up being a little bit tighter, for a little bit (until they get worn, like they are now)

To adjust the steering, I usually start by aligning the front wheels with the rear wheels
...just use a couple of (straight) boards

Once the fronts are aligned with the rears
...then, "toe" 'em in just a bit (which means to adjust both wheels to point inwards, just a bit)
...& give 'er a try

Here is a video I made years ago on making & installing tie rods

Damn! I love how easy you made this look, one handed and a camera in the other and traded off hand to hand! The video is just what I needed. I want to see if I can make some adjustments and will definitely use a couple straight boards. Thank you!

 

[USAMAC]

Here is a video I made years ago on making & installing tie rods

Hey, so I can you help me understand what's going on with this speed square? I see the 2x4 you have but why is the top of the square not touching anything?

 

[madprofessor]

Watch this video by this down-to-earth guy explaining ackerman and the basics of front end setup. I just like the way he makes it simple for folks.
GoKart steering explained,including Ackermann Theory.WATCH BEFORE YOU WELD! - YouTube

 

[Functional Artist]

Hey, so I can you help me understand what's going on with this speed square? I see the 2x4 you have but why is the top of the square not touching anything?
View attachment 129500

Wow!, good eye!

In this situation Ima using the speed square, in conjunction, with that little block of wood, which actually "touches" the pitman arm

Because, the 1/2" wide pitman arm was a bit narrower than the 5/8" steering shaft
...so, I couldn't just use the speed square alone & the board was a necessary "adapter"
The same procedure was used on the other side, ta get 'er "squared" up

 

[USAMAC]

Watch this video by this down-to-earth guy explaining ackerman and the basics of front end setup. I just like the way he makes it simple for folks.
GoKart steering explained,including Ackermann Theory.WATCH BEFORE YOU WELD! - YouTube

Ok so there are some conflicting videos, or maybe some only show part of the equation. So, the only adjustment I really need to concern myself with after making sure the front and back wheels are in line, is with the tire-rod bars? Some videos talk about having the front wheels at a \ / slightly.. But that just doesn't sound right, especially with the examples you guys are giving here.

 

[Functional Artist]

Ok so there are some conflicting videos, or maybe some only show part of the equation. So, the only adjustment I really need to concern myself with after making sure the front and back wheels are in line, is with the tire-rod bars? Some videos talk about having the front wheels at a \ / slightly.. But that just doesn't sound right, especially with the examples you guys are giving here.

Yup, "my" standard procedure is to align the fronts with the rears
...then, adjust both fronts to "toe in" (technical term) a few degrees

That's why in the earlier post I said
"Once the fronts are aligned with the rears
...then, "toe" 'em in just a bit (which means to adjust both wheels to point inwards, just a bit)
...& give 'er a try"

Having both front wheels "in alignment" will usually work fine

If the wheels are angled outwards (even just a bit) they tend to make the steering kinda "squirrely"

If the front wheels are angled inwards (just a bit) it seems ta help stabilize the steering

 

[Functional Artist]

Actually there's quite a bit of geometry involved in steering (Ackerman, Castor, Camber & even Spindle Inclination)
...but, it's usually kept pretty simple for most go karts
...& so, most folks don't get too "deep" into it (except for competition or to help fix a steering issue)

So, to expand on the subject further
...& as another kind of example, on my latest project the Slingshot, I couldn't align the fronts with the rears ('cause it only has 3 wheels)
...so, I just aligned the front spindles, with each other (again, using a board/straight edge)
...& then, "toe'd" both of the spindles, inward a little bit

See in the pics where I aligned "the board" with the spindle brackets
...then, used "the board" as a reference, ta adjust 'em in

 

[ONE-EYE]

It does get confusing. Been working with mine too. From what I take from it, it's ok for the wheels to be at a slight \ / position WITH NO WEIGHT IN THE KART. After weight is on it tho, a person on it, you want the position to be I I or at a slight / \. Achieving these different positions will depend on your shock position and how much they're broken in. You definitely don't want to be riding with the wheels in the \ / position.

 

[madprofessor]

Lots of talk about toe-in, but how does it work? It's the only thing that's actually supposed to change all by itself when the kart's in motion. As speed increases, the tires will actually apply some pressure to spread them back straight again. How much slop there is in your steering linkage can increase the effect. Scientifically, how does it happen? I'm not sure.
As to your weight changing things when you get in, that actually wouldn't happen in a perfect world, but it does, and it's called bumpsteer. In a perfect world, the travel up/down of your front suspension should never change the camber of the wheels, they should remain just as straight or just as cambered as they are in any position. In my world, 2 main things matter.............
Ackermann angle is an absolute necessity for any straight rear axle, watch the videos on it. The other is caster (leaning the spindle bolts backwards), what makes the kart try to steer straight ahead at speed by itself. Seems folks like about 2-3 degrees, but given the choice I'd go 6 degrees, rather have to fight for a turn than fight keeping it straight. If I want to let go of the steering wheel to take pictures, light a cigarette, or make an obscene gesture to one of my 4 ex-wives, I don't want the kart to drive itself into a bricked mailbox.