steam-pedal tadpole trike, also tilting

[hodala]

only drawings in progress,you can also mount a tiny gas engine on bike,directing exaust & water-cooled heat into boiler

 

[landuse]

That is an interesting concept hodala. Is this going to be for production or just a project for ypu ?

 

[OzFab]

Forget the engine, just the frame concept is great...

 

[machinist@large]

Frame concept IS great; it's just the steam power aspect....

HISTORY RANT ON.

Go back a full century here in North America; while many steam traction engines were still earning their keep on the farm, the threshhold had been crossed. Steam power was being run out of the tractor market by A] operating costs, and B] safety.

How many INTERNAL combustion engines do you know of that we have to worry about blowing a gasket and killing ~25 to 30 people?

HISTORY RANT OFF.

 

[Poboy kartman]

Hmmmm- You got my attention. ..I'm going to have to do some thinking on this and some watchin'....

 

[hodala]

That is an interesting concept hodala. Is this going to be for production or just a project for ypu ?

I just found out the combination could be practical guess you guys like steam works,an oscillating cylinder steam engine easily build for most DIY people

Could be useful for bike travelers to cook or warm up when it is cold,outback long trip should tow a trailer to collect something can burn

 

[hodala]

There is a gif animation here http://hodala01.blogspot.tw/

 

[fowler]

it is a very clever design
i like the leaning trike idea

but as machinist said its bloody dangerous

its not really a basic diy thing

ok so u can buy tose little kits that is heated by a tea candle and the engine is the size of a pen

but to get power out of one
the first steam engines were huge
like they had there own buildings
and they put out around 20hp

they ran on only a few psi
to make a compact engine power a vehical u must raise the pressure to more like 30 to 50 psi
as pressure increases as does temperature

the water coming out of that boiler or engine if it lets go isnt going to give u a red mark it will remove flesh immediately
effectively cooks u in milli seconds

i dont mean to scare u off but dont think a steam engine is going to be a weekend job
itll take some serous number crunching to keep it safe

 

[hodala]

it is a very clever design
i like the leaning trike idea

but as machinist said its bloody dangerous

its not really a basic diy thing

ok so u can buy tose little kits that is heated by a tea candle and the engine is the size of a pen

but to get power out of one
the first steam engines were huge
like they had there own buildings
and they put out around 20hp

they ran on only a few psi
to make a compact engine power a vehical u must raise the pressure to more like 30 to 50 psi
as pressure increases as does temperature

the water coming out of that boiler or engine if it lets go isnt going to give u a red mark it will remove flesh immediately
effectively cooks u in milli seconds

i dont mean to scare u off but dont think a steam engine is going to be a weekend job
itll take some serous number crunching to keep it safe

I think u are right,high tempreture steam is dangerous for DIY people,since I had only build a model size school days,I'll take it carefully if I had to touch the topic

Thank you for reminding all of us

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Frame concept IS great; it's just the steam power aspect....

HISTORY RANT ON.



How many INTERNAL combustion engines do you know of that we have to worry about blowing a gasket and killing ~25 to 30 people?

HISTORY RANT OFF.

Nope. NOW Chicken Little clucks about flywheels...

 

[machinist@large]

Nope. NOW Chicken Little clucks about flywheels...

It's good that ol' Little only has to worry about more localized issues; if the builder has the skills and equipment to build the kart, then they have the skills to prevent the uncontrolled disassembly of their flywheel...

The reason I mentioned the dangers of steam propulsion is because there have been several really horrific accidents over the last several decades in the preservation community....

The only way you can NOW operate your steam engine (of any sort) without mandatory training and ALL of the inspections required by the State where you are is if it's in your back yard, and they don't know you have it....

Basically, saturated steam is invisible. You can't see it. And if you happen to have a leak, and walk into the cloud, you will be seriously burned.

If you accidentally inhale any of it, you will be dead in ~10 to 15 minutes, and there is absolutely nothing anyone will be able to do about it.

Hate to be such a downer, it's just that steam power probably ISN'T the place to "just go it alone" when it comes to training and safety....

 

[hodala]

I've found some engine exaust heat recovery reserch of Taiwanese institude,surely much more you can find in english,heat direct to boiler is more efficient,less loss than another form of facilities

 

[machinist@large]

I've found some engine exaust heat recovery reserch of Taiwanese institude,surely much more you can find in english,heat direct to boiler is more efficient,less loss than another form of facilities

OK; this is a totally different setup. Since it has cooling fins on the outside, I'm guessing it's intended to capture/ recover energy using the principles of the Stirling cycle.

I'm far from an expert on Stirling cycle theory, but for those that haven't heard of it, it uses the temperature differential from the heat source to the cool zone to generate reciprocating motion, which can be turned into rotating motion by a crank shaft (sound familiar?).

It's an idea that's been round for at least a century, has had a lot of work done on it, but hasn't quite made the leap to the practical yet. It runs on similar principles to both internal combustion engines (go karts, cars, etc.) as well as external combustion engines (steam, etc.).

What sets it apart from the others is the fact that it doesn't need the massive temperature differences that IC and EC engines normally run (hundreds of degrees). Five or ten degrees can be more than enough to operate one.

Anyone have a wood stove with one of those up&down rod/ crank shaft/ fan air circulator? Just sits on top of the stove and slowly spins away?

 

[itsid]

Really?

I think the cable on the exhaust suggest an electrical recovery.. so a peltier element
or a stack of peltiers...

*shrugs*

'sid

 

[machinist@large]

Really?

I think the cable on the exhaust suggest an electrical recovery.. so a peltier element
or a stack of peltiers...

*shrugs*

'sid

You're more than likely correct; so just what are these things, for those of us that are new tech challenged?

 

[itsid]

what a peltier element is?
A thermoelectric heat pump (*giggle*)

No really, it's a sandwich of different materials [ceramic and semiconductors], that induce a current when the opposite ends of said sandwich have a different temperature.
The bigger the difference in temperature, the higher the current.
They work in both ways...so if you apply current one side will heat up, the other will cool down
Best known use: small beverage coolers or electric coolers for your car.
they all have a peltier element (or multiple) inside.

And since they work both ways, if you can heat one side up (exhaust) and cool the other side down (heatsinks) you will be able to get a certain amount of current.
stacking will multiply the effect.
IIRC it has something to do with how they're made the sandwich is electrically in series and thermally in parallel, I can't explain the details to be honest

Anyways..
say hot and cool sides are stacked hc-hc-hc, you can almost triple your currents
which makes sense since an exhaust is pretty hot, and the sorrounding air can be really cold, and every element itself has limits of accepting or creating currents of course.

'sid

 

[machinist@large]

So, it's basically the idea of the Stirling cycle taken to the next level?

 

[itsid]

well yeah, without the moving parts and electric instead of mechanical power, but yes..
heat to easily useable energy

'sid

 

[hodala]

OK; this is a totally different setup. Since it has cooling fins on the outside, I'm guessing it's intended to capture/ recover energy using the principles of the Stirling cycle.- -

On the right hand side is a heat to electical trasfer unit,Stirling cycle can't help you pushing a bike as I know,I just simply gathering exaust heat to warm up water,hot water is useful for a riding trip even if it can't push the bike,to heat water to overheated vapor needs a gas stove

 

[itsid]

hodala,
I'm sorry but I have the impression you're overengineering already..
It's just full of dohickeys and thingamabobs...

Looking at the bike (I actually like the leaning reverse trike idea!! )
it's already crowded with parts.

A self propelled bicycle is nice if I have one or two things more to move around than just a backpack.
But with your bike, that's not going to happen anymore, there's simply no room for a basket because I have to carry a fuel tank, a gas bottle, a steamer, a small combustion engine a soup-pot of some sort (what? meals on wheels pt.II)
and I'm sure I forgot something already.
There's barely any room left to add a saddlebag or something.

just my two cents.

'sid

PS that bike with just a combustion engine OR electric motor would be great!