starter issues

[danielw]

Good morning. I have a DongFang DF200GKG go-cart and im having starter issues. I have power to the starter and the starter spins as it should but i believe that the Transition Gear may be broke possibly. I can see that gear when i remove the starter and the gear spins freely but im not sure if it supposed to have tension on it or not. I have not yet torn down the passenger side of the engine where that gear is located at. What does all this entail and what could possibly be broke/wrong. Thanks.

 

[mckutzy]

Post some pics as to what exactly this engine is???

 

[itsid]

Mac: a 169cc gy6 (yeah I know...not really 200)

is the starter protection bypassed (the brake pedal thingy? DF's only start with brake pedal down usually)

if so the starter might have gotten stuck previously and chewed on the internals.
there's an overrunning clutch so you should only be able to spin that gear in ONE direction.


'sid

[EDIT]
OOPs forgot the parts manual..

if I'm not mistaking you get to the starter gear by just removing the fancover and fan..
I think it's on your side of the right side cover at least (so no popped gasket)

 

[danielw]

The starter seems to work perfectly with the brake pedal pushed in. The problem is that the transition gear that the starter spins to crank over the engine spins freely with no tension. Im not sure if that is what it is supposed to do. I have not torn it all the way down yet but i think that gear might be broken possibly. I dont hear any grinding from the engine and the engine is not locked up.

 

[itsid]

then the pawls failed I guess..
behind that large starter gear, there's a one way clutch.
(you can see parts of it through the hole)

that is fixed to the crank and allows the engine to run faster than the gear itself.
(but not slower!)

IDK if there's a pawl repair kit available, but the clutch wheel is a spare part (it's in the manual I linked above)

'sid

PS Oh wait you said transition gear.. my fault...
well then the first reduction will have failed somehow..
chewed off the teeth either on the large wheel of the transition wheel or the teeth on the starter motor itself. since it's permanently engaged with the starter motor you should feel that resistance at least in one direction (in the other the engine compression even)

 

[danielw]

All the teeth are on the the starter motor and the teeth are on the bigger part of the transition gear but i cant see the teeth on the smaller gear. I have no resistance either way i spin it. Unfortunately i will have to tear it down soon to see what all is broke. Hopefully it is something easy and simple. Thank you for all the info 'sid.

 

[Karttekk]

My guess would be the starter clutch or what they're calling the overrunning coupler assembly. It is a sprag setup or a one way only setup. Chances are the woodruff key sheared on the crankshaft allowing the one way clutch to spin both ways or the clutch mechanism itself broke. How it works is the starter turns a gear that connects to the sprag clutch to rotate the crankshaft. Once the engine starts the sprag/clutch freewheels. Process starts over next time you start the engine.

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

Watch this video to get an idea. Should be similar to your setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gMeC9uTdE0

 

[itsid]

All the teeth are on the the starter motor and the teeth are on the bigger part of the transition gear but i cant see the teeth on the smaller gear.

Oh so that was not _your_ starter gear up there..
I see..

well no way but to remove the fan cover and fan I guess.
and I'd be back to my original assumption again..
just as karttekk..

the clutch is just way more likely to fail than the
gear teeth on the second stage (as you can se much bigger individual teeth)

'sid

 

[danielw]

Thank you for the info.. I have ordered the magneto puller and clutch nut puller which should be here tomorrow. If i dont see any physical damage with the starter gear or if the woodruff key is not broke, how do i know if the clutch is bad?

 

[itsid]

once the gear is off
just turn the clutch by hand... (give it a good spin)
if you can spin it in both directions it's bad,
if not it's good..
I cannot find any information about what type of one way they used..
I'd assume spring loaded locking pawls

if it's repairable I can't tell I don't even know if it's meant to be disassembled once out.*shrugs*

gy6-es are not the best documented engines in the world I'm afraid

'sid

 

[danielw]

'sid, i disassembled it last night and the clutch is toast. It does spin freely both directions. The reason being is that the metal shaft that holds the starter transition gear is completely missing in the engine from the factory! (Talk about quality control, lol). Im actually surprised that the parts lasted as long as they did with the shaft missing. Anyways, i ordered the new parts from Buggy Parts North West located in Oregon USA. Thank you for your time and info.

 

[itsid]

make sure it didn't desintegrate inside the engine..
check all nooks and crannies for debris and clean it as good as you can.
it'd be terrible if you lock something up just because of a stray metal flake.

'sid

 

[Karttekk]

Change the oil. When you remove the drain plug you'll see a screen that looks like a cup along with a spring. Make sure there's no debris or any shavings in it. Look for any chunks in the old oil once it's drained. If you have an oil filter change it too. If no signs of metal or debris spin a new filter on it, put the cleaned screen and plug back in, add oil and check for leaks.

 

[danielw]

The parts i ordered should arrive today and will start to install them tonight. The oil was clean and no visible signs of metal anywhere but i will definitely check further before the install. Thanks 'sid and Karttekk.

 

[itsid]

let us know how it went!

'sid

 

[danielw]

I sure will.

 

[danielw]

Alright fellas, the clutch WAS fried and the starter transition gear shaft was actually stuck in the front cover when i pulled it off. I figured it was just a location pin so i didnt pay much attention to it. (I have a spare now, lol). Anyways, put it all back together last night and it fired up on the first turn. She runs like a champ now. Thanks to yall for all the advise and input. God Bless!

 

[Karttekk]

Thanks for the update. Letting us know what fixed it will help other riders with similar issues. Have a blast!

 

[itsid]

thank you,
but could you by chance post a pic of the "location pin"
just for the next guy to narrow down on the issue some more?

'sid

 

[Karttekk]

Pretty sure he's talking about the reduction gear shaft. Sometimes it will remain in the front cover when removing it.

•MERGED•
The other pin he's talking about could be these dowel pins, sometimes they're known as locating pins.