Reduction box uses?

[Smerft85]

I just picked up an old briggs flathead that had a reduction box attached nearly identical to the one in the pictures, if I gather correctly they lower top end and raise the torque? What uses might it be good for in the karting world?

 

[Tpdingo]

If it has an internal clutch, might be good for some karts with small tires where you couldn't normally fit a normal ratio...without a jackshaft.

 

[mckutzy]

Whats the redux ratio?

 

[itsid]

View attachment 110533

I just picked up an old briggs flathead that had a reduction box attached nearly identical to the one in the pictures, if I gather correctly they lower top end and raise the torque? What uses might it be good for in the karting world?

that one?
NONE!
exactly ZERO use in the karting world I'm afraid

If it has an internal clutch, might be good for some karts with small tires where you couldn't normally fit a normal ratio...without a jackshaft.

because that is INCORRECT!
that redux box is a 6:1 fixed w/o any clutch
(might be a rare 2:1 reduction box w/o clutch.. can't tell from a generic pic,
but the point is it just doesn't have a clutch

means as soon as the engine runs (in idle) the kart will have to move or the engie will stall and die immediately.

Unlike the 2:1 wetclutch equipped (three times as big) reduction box,
that indeed has a know place in karting..
mostly concession karts since it's rather bulletproof and can handle more abuse than any dry clutch could.

'sid

 

[Tpdingo]

because that is INCORRECT!
that redux box is a 6:1 fixed w/o any clutch
(might be a rare 2:1 reduction box w/o clutch.. can't tell from a generic pic,
but the point is it just doesn't have a clutch

means as soon as the engine runs (in idle) the kart will have to move or the engie will stall and die immediately.

Unlike the 2:1 wetclutch equipped (three times as big) reduction box,
that indeed has a know place in karting..
mostly concession karts since it's rather bulletproof and can handle more abuse than any dry clutch could.

'sid

Well I did say if because I didn't know, I figured it didn't but I don't know because I haven't seen one like that before and its a generic pic.

 

[txluke]

I had one on a quarter midget racing cart. Impractical for normal use. It was a direct drive. you had to push start the kart and if you came to a full stop it dies.

 

[Smerft85]

that one?
NONE!
exactly ZERO use in the karting world I'm afraid



because that is INCORRECT!
that redux box is a 6:1 fixed w/o any clutch
(might be a rare 2:1 reduction box w/o clutch.. can't tell from a generic pic,
but the point is it just doesn't have a clutch

means as soon as the engine runs (in idle) the kart will have to move or the engie will stall and die immediately.

Unlike the 2:1 wetclutch equipped (three times as big) reduction box,
that indeed has a know place in karting..
mostly concession karts since it's rather bulletproof and can handle more abuse than any dry clutch could.

'sid

This is correct, it turns with the engine, the shaller kart I'm giving my nephew has a 2:1 on it, only reason it's staying is because I don't want to convert it to chain drive mostly because the extra cash and time aren't available. I'll get an actual picture of mine, the genarac picture is only because mine is gross, it turns VERY slow, I'd say you 6:1 ratio is dead on, if it's even fast enough to spin a clutch, I'd bet it would be like granny gear all the time.

 

[itsid]

Well I did say if because I didn't know, I figured it didn't but I don't know because I haven't seen one like that before and its a generic pic.

Yepp sorry.. misreading on my behalf
if and it must have merged before my blurry eyes
(5 am what can I say..)
Sorry 'bout that.

... it turns VERY slow, I'd say you 6:1 ratio is dead on, if it's even fast enough to spin a clutch, I'd bet it would be like granny gear all the time.

well since you typically gear a kart 6:1 anyways..
you could run it to the axle 1:1 and be set (or adjust for as little additional gearing you need)

But the main issue remains: you cannot have a non moving kart with a running engine.
Since you cannot add a cent clutch.
since you'd need one that engages at 300 rpm or so
and such thing does not exist on any shelf I know of.

You can try and ask maxtorque if they can make you some custom springs (they do custom work on request if you contact Jim)
but IDK if it makes much sense or is at all feasible.

Oh and you cannot just remove the gearbox either..
for all I know they have a toothed gear cut directly into the very short PTO
So in oder to mount a std clutch you'll need to buy a new crankshaft first

'sid

 

[Smerft85]

Oh and you cannot just remove the gearbox either..
for all I know they have a toothed gear cut directly into the very short PTO
So in oder to mount a std clutch you'll need to buy a new crankshaft first

'sid[/QUOTE]

This is good info to know, these are my first briggs engines since the early 90's, I'll probably pull the cover on the reduction box with fingers crossed that you aren't correct with this one, but it's a 3hp, so if you are right, it will probably sit on the shelf for quite a while.

 

[mckutzy]

Might want to get a predator engine as they are typically about $100...

 

[Smerft85]

Might want to get a predator engine as they are typically about $100...

I'm not the type to follow others, I'm not too big on predators and the easy way out, flathead has a different sound, and I didn't have to pay anything for three engines!

Plus a bright shiney new engine wouldn't look proper on a ratrod kart, antique would fit the part nicely.

 

[mckutzy]

Well then... We here have heard that statement many a time...
If that be the case... Then good luck..

But also as a fellow rat rodder myself(check my thread), it either has the right look, or you make it have the right look... So a new motor can be made to look old..

Also you going to need to spend money... Or be at least very good at scrounging and dealing..

 

[Smerft85]

Also you going to need to spend money... Or be at least very good at scrounging and dealing..[/QUOTE]

I'm very good at scrounging and dealing, half the engines and frames in my garage were free, I don't have money to spend so that is not a need for me, I have resources and folks that owe me, it will happen at some point, I've got newer engines but not one is a predator, most are honda, and were given to me.

In the end I have an attachment to the things of yesteryear, and even if the look can be altered to meet the part, the sound and the story behind it all remain different, paint can't change the sound of an engine, and chrome don't make it any faster. And if you had a 426 hemi in the garage that needed a little work, I don't see you tossing it aside for a toyota, being a hot-rodder...

 

[itsid]

mac's point unfortunately still valid however..

What I think he intended to say is:
for the price of a replacement briggs crankshaft, and a set of gaskets..
and assuming one needs to spend some for carb cleaning and such
you'd likely be spending less for a predator (it being the cheapest of all known engines in their power range)
especially not if said flathead is a measly 3horse variant

Chances are all money spent is money wasted on it (for adult vehicle application that is)
maybe for a small kid *shrugs*

But yeah if you can get it working for free I'm all with you

'sid

 

[Smerft85]

mac's point unfortunately still valid however..

What I think he intended to say is:
for the price of a replacement briggs crankshaft, and a set of gaskets..
and assuming one needs to spend some for carb cleaning and such
you'd likely be spending less for a predator (it being the cheapest of all known engines in their power range)
especially not if said flathead is a measly 3horse variant

Chances are all money spent is money wasted on it (for adult vehicle application that is)
maybe for a small kid *shrugs*

But yeah if you can get it working for free I'm all with you

'sid

I've got a two and a five year old, so the 3hp would be just that, a kid cart. Chances are I can go thru a friends shed with him and get at least enough to put new gaskets in all three engines, maybe a performance part or two for one of the 5hp's. I completely understand the low price and plentiful nature of the predator engines, it just doesn't jive with my personality, almost everything I own that I truly enjoy are rare and hard to find stuff for, and most of the time it's all overpriced. I like the out of ordinary, something that's not in every other garage, head turners.

 

[mckutzy]

Off hand at the time it was more or less about what 'sid said... but I think based on the pic of the redux box shown above, Its a bolt on... so no dedicated sideplate and crank like a typical HONDA brand or clone redux motor....

Weather a clone Derp or a genuine Honda motor, I think its kinda splitting hairs..... More or less... whatever is easier to get you running was the point...

I didnt paint my bike, nor put any chrome( OK.. the gas cap has it, but thats factory to the motor, and now... its getting rusty...)....As I say "my bike paints itself when it rains"... But depends on the style... It looks old(ish) but that is the made look.....AND people still call it a Briggs and Stratton(EVEN though it has a honda car badge to distinguish it from that)....


As far as the sound.. I get it(truly) .. I have a '53 #14 6hp, That I bought a new carb for, and after a slight mod to that carb to make it work, I reckon itll go into my other chopper project.... It wont be like any other I have...But its got a clone till its ready for the big 6...


Oh... Im not much a fan of the Toyota, but if my RB26DETT was in better condition and good to go than my 426.... darn tootin Ill slap B that into a Model A and maker good to go.....
Then again im a Ratrodder....

 

[Smerft85]

Well back to the original topic, the reduction box in question proves a few things correct here, it does turn full time with the engine, it did come right off with the bolts removed, and the engine shaft is a spline set-up, however it looks like it could be ground to accept a clutch.

Also want to add, aside from a carb kit on the 3hp, and one of the 5hp engines, two of my three free engines fired up tonight and sounded strong. I fully admit a little luck was present, but I can make both run well for the price of a carb kit, if I have to even buy them.