Real quick... getting out of hand

[J_Walker]

Okay with the rule reciting and the "update your profile location" on newbies who have a single question whether or not to remove a governor, or simple questions that don't require pictures or a profile location...

it's starting to annoy me

all some of you are doing is scaring away people.. its really getting bad. I rarely post on the main forum because I don't need help personally. every now and again I will answer a question or two. but every time I peak my head over its some sort of "PUT YOUR PROFILE LOCATION UP" flame war.



Don't shoot me. but it's not one person doing it any more and its spreading, and I personally think there needs to be some changes in the way some members are posting...

Yes its nice for someone to answer a question on the main forum and try to help EVERYONE. An it not go weeks on end without a single reply. but if their post makes no sense to you, or is just of poor quality. let the thread die.....

until people learn how to write a proper thread with healthy information on their items/situation/problems their threads will just keep dying and not getting a response, and they will either lurk more and get the hint or leave. either way the forums don't get a bad name. maybe become slightly known for being "nonactive" but that's not as bad as turning into the SV forums. or the GSXR forums.

 

[KartFab]

I agree, I really don't care if you post where you are from. Virtually all the times people fill out their profile location, it does absolutely nothing to benefit them other than to satiate the pet peeves of those that dictate it be filled out, and more detrimentally, it intimidates and annoys new members that really just want their actual problem to be solved.

That's a fact.

I'm sure that someone will pull the 'someone lived next to a member and got help' bull crap excuse as to why all people need to fill out profile locations, but that is the extremely RARE exception that does not apply to virtually all members, and it does not merit inconveniencing all new members with constant reminders, and withholding useful information from them.

You can apply the everybody must do this, to benefit the very few based on the degree of benefit it applies. For example, it is widely accepted that people should wear seat belts (even though they are annoying) because the few times they are needed, the benefit is not dying, and avoiding serious injury. Random fire alarm drills are highly inconvenient for teachers and students, but the benefit on the rare instance that it is needed outweighs the inconvenience.

Nobody is going to die if they don't fill out their profile locations, so the benefit achieved by trying to enforce that all people fill out locations is nullified.

Pictures are more helpful, but then again, the blanket approach to telling members to post pics is also problematic. Sometimes pictures are needed, but other times they are not.

Others have brought up 'oh well what if i have parts or a local parts place' well thats all bull crap too, because last time i checked, gas was about $2 per gallon, shipping is cheap, and ebay/online stores exist to ship you stuff.

What about other countries? Well so what about other countries? If someone from someplace other than the USA asks the question on where to get parts etc, they typically say they are from X country anyway so enough of this false logic about how useful your location is.

The internet/message boards have an implied and assumed level of anonymity. Forcing people to cough up contact information is just plain ignorant.

 

[Half-breeder]

I used to ask afew times out... but mainly when only NC was put as location. After hearing about this forum from local customers (before calling my ad) saying quite abit of negativity n "noob rudeness" had turned them off of "word of mouth help" from both members n acouple times from a moderator ... which explains over half my business (thank you). But I agree 500% that withholding info cause they didn't fill out a profile location is quite a bit outta hand n to add to it CHILDISH aswell as "not your place/roll" to doing so... it's the moderators "job/duty" if it's NEEDED... which rarely is a "required" field.

 

[Poboy kartman]

Well....it should come as no surprise to anyone here that I would prefer every new member fill out a profile location. Even when it's not required to answer the question, but I don't think we should be saying we won't help people if they don't....

I pretty much agree with everything J Walker said....

KartFab's post though, I think minimizes the benefits of filling out a profile location....and fails to consider the importance of knowing where in the WORLD the member is from...also, the amount of times hands on help has occurred is more than just rare....it's actually fairly common...and virtually impossible without a location.

And posting up pics is another thing that is extremely helpful. Again though, we should be diplomatic in suggesting pics and how we prefer they be presented....

Am I guilty of not following the above advice? Certainly, but it doesn't change the fact that it's something we can and should improve on collectively.

One last word on this: as I have said many times....I have never seen a single member say they regretted filling out that profile location, but many that have received much more and better help because they have, and are glad they did.

EDIT: I thought I'd add this: When someone requests a new member fill out a profile location , asks for pics that are needed, or suggests thumbnails....I usually push the "Thanks" button, they've already posted what I think needed to be, and doing that is just as supportive as a duplicate post. Where we have really come off looking bad in the past is a string of posts for the same thing....even if collectively and individually, we were reserved and respectful, I can see where a new member can conceive that as being "picked on" or "attacked" ....so....just a thought, but one post to inform new members of our collective preferences should be sufficient and the barrage of posts counterproductive. Some new members in the past have certainly asked for it and compelled other members to respond, but many have not....and that's just another area we can improve in. Just as new members appreciate a slew of "Welcome" posts, they are put off by even slightly negative ones.....

 

[KartFab]

KartFab's post though, I think minimizes the benefits of filling out a profile location....

Because it should be minimized. It really is not that important.

There is clear evidence that it is more detrimental to new members to be persistently asked for profile locations than any benefit new members would have received by filling out their location. Again, one thing that really bothers me is the degree of express or implied negativity toward new members that do not fill out profile locations.

Anything else that you say about benefit to new members that just want a question answered is purely anecdotal, and likely an opinion.

Let me put this in my own biased words"

New user: hey i just bought a go kart and need help getting parts its a manco model XXXX

What others say: fill out your profile location, you never know if there is another member that could live just down the road and help you. Post pictures or we really cant help you. Who knows, you might live in another country where parts are hard to find.

Reality: new user just wants parts, and is put off by all this dirt that was flung in his face. he responds and reacts negatively

others say: well x reason is why you should have done what we asked, now i dont think i can help you, are you a TROLL?!?!

new user: reacts negatively or leaves.

others say yeah he was a troll or didnt know how to follow rules

reality nobody offered him the correct advice, all the user got was feedback.

what should have happened oh i noticed you have a manco, so its obviously an AMERICAN made go kart, and statistically speaking %85 of all traffic to DIYgokarts is from the usa, and it is rare to find parts for american go karts outside of the usa. So chances are this guy knows how to use a computer to order parts, irregardless of where he lives......... Then what happens? Oh by the way just go to americansportworks.com and here is the link. type in your part number on ebay and you are in business.

wow, actually addressing someones question? Who would have thought that was the thing to do? Isnt that why this forum exists? To answer questions and help everyone out? Its not helpful to shove your agenda down someones throat when all they need is a simple question answered.

 

[Poboy kartman]

Because it should be minimized. It really is not that important.

There is clear evidence that it is more detrimental to new members to be persistently asked for profile locations than any benefit new members would have received by filling out their location. Again, one thing that really bothers me is the degree of express or implied negativity toward new members that do not fill out profile locations.

Anything else that you say about benefit to new members that just want a question answered is purely anecdotal, and likely an opinion.

So sorry, forgot that we only have opinions....but YOUR opinion is FACT. At the same time, I'm not disagreeing with you, it's the negative and persistent way the information is requested that is the problem....but where we disagree is the benefits of the information requested.

 

[colestreasures]

I personally could care less if someone don't put ip a locatiin,
I said something twice yesterday to 2 new guys and wasent mean in any way, the reason i did was because i knew some others were going to start hitting them up, i know it was wrong of me but like said seems everytime im on here i see it, i came here for help /info and to contribute what and when I can.. thats it. One more thing not everyone has the best grammer eiather. As long as they stop and breathe between a sentence and leave a period or something im fine with that. But you forget to capitalize or miss spell something somewhat well that don't bother me eiather, i understand if everything runs together without breaks , that does make for hard reading, with that said I have been thru schooling i dont come here for that type learning. Ok im done thats it.
Cole

 

[Poboy kartman]

Because it should be minimized. It really is not that important.

There is clear evidence that it is more detrimental to new members to be persistently asked for profile locations than any benefit new members would have received by filling out their location. Again, one thing that really bothers me is the degree of express or implied negativity toward new members that do not fill out profile locations.

Anything else that you say about benefit to new members that just want a question answered is purely anecdotal, and likely an opinion.

Let me put this in my own biased words"

New user: hey i just bought a go kart and need help getting parts its a manco model XXXX

What others say: fill out your profile location, you never know if there is another member that could live just down the road and help you. Post pictures or we really cant help you. Who knows, you might live in another country where parts are hard to find.

Reality: new user just wants parts, and is put off by all this dirt that was flung in his face. he responds and reacts negatively

others say: well x reason is why you should have done what we asked, now i dont think i can help you, are you a TROLL?!?!

new user: reacts negatively or leaves.

others say yeah he was a troll or didnt know how to follow rules

reality nobody offered him the correct advice, all the user got was feedback.

what should have happened oh i noticed you have a manco, so its obviously an AMERICAN made go kart, and statistically speaking %85 of all traffic to DIYgokarts is from the usa, and it is rare to find parts for american go karts outside of the usa. So chances are this guy knows how to use a computer to order parts, irregardless of where he lives......... Then what happens? Oh by the way just go to americansportworks.com and here is the link. type in your part number on ebay and you are in business.

wow, actually addressing someones question? Who would have thought that was the thing to do? Isnt that why this forum exists? To answer questions and help everyone out? Its not helpful to shove your agenda down someones throat when all they need is a simple question answered.

Ummmmm.....if he is so internet savvy, and knowledgeable enough to know WHERE the best place to buy parts is...reguardless of where he lives.....Why is he here?

I suppose since gas is so expensive, and internet is the only way to buy, you have never picked up anything from GoPowersports in person?

Contrary to what you may think, we have had quite a few times we have found members asking for parts suggestions and MANY posts later, found out they weren't even in the US.

Other times, there have been people who just don't internet shop and are looking for locally available parts and incredulously, don't give a profile location.

Yes, location is only unimportant when viewed from your circumstances and viewpoint.

Is it overemphaszied at times? Yes!!!! Is the balance that it's unnecessary more times than not? BIG FAT NO!!!! JMHO.

 

[KartFab]

Ummmmm.....if he is so internet savvy, and knowledgeable enough to know WHERE the best place to buy parts is...reguardless of where he lives.....Why is he here?

I suppose since gas is so expensive, and internet is the only way to buy, you have never picked up anything from GoPowersports in person?

Contrary to what you may think, we have had quite a few times we have found members asking for parts suggestions and MANY posts later, found out they weren't even in the US.

Other times, there have been people who just don't internet shop and are looking for locally available parts and incredulously, don't give a profile location.

Yes, location is only unimportant when viewed from your circumstances and viewpoint.

Is it overemphaszied at times? Yes!!!! Is the balance that it's unnecessary more times than not? BIG FAT NO!!!! JMHO.

Saying 'locations are not that important', does not mean that locations have no importance. They are not important enough to shove down every new user's throat that posts simple questions, especially when you can answer the question without knowing their location, which makes location irrelevant in that case (again, all cases are different and locations are not that important).

People come here asking questions, and the priority is to answer them and be helpful, not to remind them that the location needs to be filled out, then not even attempt to answer the question. The problem really gets out of hand when you tell them to fill out the profile location, and don't even attempt to answer the question, which is not helpful.

In my opinion, the trap that many of us fall into, is that we assume new users (that are probably not the best at asking questions), are incredulous, trolls, ignorant, selfish etc. when in fact, they are probably doing the best they can to ask for help, in spite of their shortcomings.

It should be assumed with all new users asking questions, that their intent is good and they need help. The help should come in the form of directly answering the question if the information provided is good enough to answer the question.

Location is unnecessary much more often than not.

Also, if you tend to overemphasize the faults of those you interact with on a routine basis, (e.g. your neighbors, checkout attendants, etc) shouldn't you really be focusing on improving yourself and the way you interact with those around you?

 

[Poboy kartman]

Saying 'locations are not that important', does not mean that locations have no importance. They are not important enough to shove down every new user's throat that posts simple questions, especially when you can answer the question without knowing their location, which makes location irrelevant in that case (again, all cases are different and locations are not that important).

People come here asking questions, and the priority is to answer them and be helpful, not to remind them that the location needs to be filled out, then not even attempt to answer the question. The problem really gets out of hand when you tell them to fill out the profile location, and don't even attempt to answer the question, which is not helpful.

In my opinion, the trap that many of us fall into, is that we assume new users (that are probably not the best at asking questions), are incredulous, trolls, ignorant, selfish etc. when in fact, they are probably doing the best they can to ask for help, in spite of their shortcomings.

It should be assumed with all new users asking questions, that their intent is good and they need help. The help should come in the form of directly answering the question if the information provided is good enough to answer the question.

Location is unnecessary much more often than not.

Also, if you tend to overemphasize the faults of those you interact with on a routine basis, (e.g. your neighbors, checkout attendants, etc) shouldn't you really be focusing on improving yourself and the way you interact with those around you?

I agree with every word , Grant, excepting the last sentence.

EDIT: I didn't see the last part of your post....(I was referring to the importance of location) ....as far as the last bit....yeah, I like to vent at times....but the incidence of me not only not getting along with people, but getting upset over it is low.

 

[KartFab]

It would be interesting to jump on the thread Tony started and help hash out what would be useful moving forward.

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31025

 

[Poboy kartman]

It would be interesting to jump on the thread Tony started and help hash out what would be useful moving forward.

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31025

Go for it!!!!

 

[Half-breeder]

In short round here we have a intellectuals sayin... "All these managers, not enough employees!" ... common sense should reveal the meaning.

 

[KartFab]

Go for it!!!!

connect four!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUkCPPJ1CNw

 

[Poboy kartman]

It would be interesting to jump on the thread Tony started and help hash out what would be useful moving forward.

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31025

:toetap05::toetap05::toetap05:

 

[Half-breeder]

connect four!

:toetap05::toetap05::toetap05:

Examining the 'chips' on each individuals shoulder for size/density/common placement and notices Doug's {Poboy} has a beer propped up under his... then looks under Grants {KartFab} and low n behold, yeap, he's gotta kart under his... yeap... BOTH disqualified for cheating... go figure, of all places, on a go kart forum (not Googles Localization app )

Heres what you 2 do... go find a field, Lord knows yall go enough of em out thar... flip a coin to find out whom will be the cow... and...


Fight for who's opinion is right...

 

[OzFab]

I personally could care less if someone don't put ip a locatiin,
I said something twice yesterday to 2 new guys and wasent mean in any way

Then why did I see the need to delete one of those posts?

As you can see from my thread on the subject, the practice of demanding a location is waaay out of hand; Tihm said it best with

it's the moderators "job/duty" if it's NEEDED... which rarely is a "required" field.

Tihm also said

After hearing about this forum from local customers (before calling my ad) saying quite abit of negativity n "noob rudeness" had turned them off of "word of mouth help" from both members n acouple times from a moderator

...which is another ongoing issue...