Questions from a galaxy far far away

[luke_skywalker]

Hi everyone, i am new to this forum, i came across it when using the googler to to try identify a go kart frame i now have when i bought a go kart. the go kart identification thread is Closed and i dont seem to have permission to reopen it.

Keep in mind i am pretty new to go karts, i like driving them, but i dont have the knowledge the lot of you seem to have..

i have a couple questions, first off, i cant find a serial number or any identification of this frame, i can see it was red and painted blue at some point. it's heavy as heck, and tube frame everywhere. it is extremely solid, in the short time i have had it, i have put it through the ringer, and has not warped in any way. I want to put smaller tires on it, so am trying to see what i can do with it

any help would be greatly appreciated

and yes, i know i need a new gas pedal.. but this works in the mean time.. the guy i got it from had just put the bike brake lever there, i added the sure grip

i also was wondering what the thing connected to the chain that is connected to the clutch is called. i looked online, and all the torque converters i found were belts from the clutch the other part

from all the karts i have seen, this part is not really necessary.. it can be removed, it is bolted to the engine and is certainly not stock on the engine (the engine is a Mitsubishi GT600)

 

[Joe-405]

Looks like a geebug or all-terrain vehicle but I can't figure out which cause you might be from Galactica.

 

[DirtyDamage]

The frame looks almost like an old racing kart frame. Between the way the chassis is formed and the seat. As well as the engine placement. I don't know, but then some parts aren't. Like the tires.

 

[OzFab]

WOW! Where do I start? Ok, in the order in which you posted...

the go kart identification thread is Closed and i dont seem to have permission to reopen it.

No, you can't open it, only a mod can do that; even if it was open you shouldn't post there; in case you missed it, that thread is for karts that have already been identified, it's a reference guide

i cant find a serial number or any identification of this frame

Have you looked around the front spindles & under the seat?

it's heavy as f!@#

Fish? Fork?

The word you are trying to use is banned for a reason; as we have members as young as 12, this is a G rated forum...

and has not warped in any way.

It could be a camera trick but, to me, your rear axle looks bent at the right side bearing...

i also was wondering what the thing connected to the chain that is connected to the clutch is called. i looked online, and all the torque converters i found were belts from the clutch the other part

You're on the right track, it used to be a TC but, someone in their widsom has removed the two clutches & replaced them with a cent clutch & a sprocket so, what you have now is a jackshaft mounted on a TC backplate...

If you remove it & run a chain from the engine to the axle, you will, most likely, need a larger axle sprocket; notice the two centre sprockets are different sizes? That's called compound gearing; without that, you will have a higher overall gear ratio which is not good for the clutch...

There's also a roller tensioner underneath...

Welcome to the forum

Finally, please don't make multiple consecutive posts minutes apart, there is an Edit button in the lower left corner of your posts...

 

[itsid]

that looks like a badly treated Margay to me...
if I had to make a guess... XperT II

'sid

 

[landuse]

Welcome! I think Fabroman has covered most of the important points

 

[mckutzy]

Far far away is right.... He doesn't list his location...

 

[luke_skywalker]

my apologies, i will no longer use swear words, that was my bad, i am father of a 7 year old, i sincerely apologies. and i will thank you all for all the other information, it's a good start for me

i plan on replacing pretty much all the parts except the motor, frame, clutch, seat. will investigate the gear ratio to make it proper, any suggestions on what i should use? from clutch to axle? does distance play into that as a rule of thumb? looks like i am able to move the engine plate back and forth, tires will end up being regular sized go kart tires

the rear axle is straight, i checked it out this morning on my way out to work, i am not sure why it looks crooked on that picture, i think because i was in panorama mode on my phone and it "stitched" the photo together incorrectly. (any image with _panorama in the filename seems to have crooked lines, you can see the crookedness on the muffler also)

i looked up the Margay identification system, and there is no serial number inside the right spindle hanger or anywhere else on the frame for that matter

I live just outside of Ottawa, in Canada, i will update my information later, i have a an 11 o'clock meeting that i should probably get ready for.

 

[itsid]

You're on the right track, it used to be a TC but, someone in their widsom has removed the two clutches & replaced them with a cent clutch & a sprocket so, what you have now is a jackshaft mounted on a TC backplate...

Or maybe it came that way...
http://gokartsusa.com/Jackshaft-Kit-Gokart-Minibike.aspx
I remember seeing such thing on old Tacos (I think it was a Taco at least)

Anywhoo...

if you get a proper set of wheels (you really should!) that is 10-11" rears
you can gear roughly 5:1 I'd say
but 6:1 is a safe harbour for sure.

You have a great opportunity now..
test what you have and judge yourself!
adjust accordingly.
count all the sprockets teeth and see what ratio you're currently running. (like 12, 24, 16, 57 starting from the clutch)
then you'll end up with your current ratio like this:
24/12 (jacksaft IN / clutch) 2:1 and 57/16 (axle / JS OUT) 3.5625:1
then multiply the two... 2 * 3.5625 and you know your current ratio (7.125:1 in this case)
I'm unable to count your sprockets, so the numbers above are totally made up

Then adjust according to your test drive:
the kart has very good low end torque and lacks top speed.. adjust towards a lower number (increase axle sprocket or JS in toothcount);
it lacks torque and you're happy about the speed.. go towards a higher number.
(increase clutch sprocket or JS out toothcount)

if you want to remove the jackshaft, you can get a ten tooth #40 clutch (it looks to be a #40 chain to me)
and just skip all the jackshaft parts to get another test value.
Afterwards you can simplify to axle/clutch toothcounts to get the ratio and adjust like above.

As long as the jackshaft kit is in working condition, I see no reason to remove it though;
Otherwise you might run into trouble with the chain hitting the frame (*shrugs* I can't say for sure...)

If you want to spend a bit more money on that, a series 30 TC kit instead of your current jackshaft kit,
will drastically improve your overall experience..
well.. it wouldn't be race ready to be honest...
but to throw some gravel in the neighborhood,
it's still the better option

'sid

 

[luke_skywalker]

now i cant wait to get home and count some teeth. thanks, this will certainly help get me on my way

new tires are gonna happen.. i just dont know anything about those either, but there is a Princess Auto not far from my office, so i'll go have a chat with them.. are the people at those stores know their stuff? i just dont want to buy some tires, get home and realize they are too small. the hubs look to be in reusable shape and have at least 2 different bolt patterns, so i'll measure them out once i take the tires off and away i go. the mad science experiment will start

after looking thought google image, i definitely think it's Margay frame and could even be the expert II, III, or Sprint based on the imagery at http://www.margay.com/vintage/vintage-ads.html

i will do some more measuring and generate a 3d model. should help with comparing

funny signature itsid.

 

[Kelly Wood]

Why's the 3rd pic photoshopped like that?

 

[luke_skywalker]

Why's the 3rd pic photoshopped like that?

it's not photoshopped, it is the panaromic mode on my device that stitches the scene together, i was too close i guess, see explanation a bit further up.

 

[luke_skywalker]

count all the sprockets teeth and see what ratio you're currently running. (like 12, 24, 16, 57 starting from the clutch)
then you'll end up with your current ratio like this:
24/12 (jacksaft IN / clutch) 2:1 and 57/16 (axle / JS OUT) 3.5625:1
then multiply the two... 2 * 3.5625 and you know your current ratio (7.125:1 in this case)
I'm unable to count your sprockets, so the numbers above are totally made up

luckily i am able to count them for you all, i think (hard to get in for a great view) they are setup as follow (starting from clutch) -i counted twice to make sure

10 20 11 47

so according to your calculations (Jackshaft to Clutch) 20/10 is 2:1 and (Axle to Jackshaft ) 47/11 is 4.27:1

the next part is where i get confused.. 2* 4.27 is 8.54:1? does that make sense? from what i am reading the higher the ration the better take off, but top speed is not great, using the gyroscope on my mobile device, i got to 41 km/h top speed (25mph) (keep in mind, this is the same device that improperly stitched photos i panoramic mode when take pictures) i do get wicked take off though and donuts can easily be done, but no one is talking about ~8:1 ratios

any thoughts on this? or help?

i watched this lad - he even leaves his telephone number
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArbChIp40Cg

and read up on
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2496
and all the associated links

im really loving this go kart research

lastly, in theory, i could leave the Jackshaft in, and change the sprocket on that on the OUT part.. many options, in the end i'd just like a cart that can do donuts on take off and hit between 80 to 90 km/h over long distances (that is roughtly 56mph) their are a fair amount of unpatrolled paved county roads with lots of farms and nice scenery around here

 

[itsid]

Sooo...
10 20 11 47 it is.. yes 8.54:1 it is.

hitting 41 km/h is -well-... let's say not if your governor is intact
limited to 3600 rpm on 15" tyres ... that's what they look like at least... would be 30km/h
with 4900 rpm though 40 km/h are possible...
42 if you can get it to run 5k rpm
(possible by removing the governor and adding some breath-ease parts)

Is it safe to assume, that you are indeed running 15" wheels and your governor is indeed removed?

I know, blunt advertising ahead... sorry
testrun with kartcalc.net
(click new kart.. add details and safe)
open from "My karts" scroll down and click "tacho"
(the internal gps speedometer needs a second or two to properly start up)

run until you're happy,
when clicking the back button it asks to save the recorded data...
if you're NOT happy, click "no" when asked to save the data.. and try again.

when performance data is saved report back


(screenshots, or hit the "post" button then copy&paste here)

'sid

PS you can add your kart several times, with different specs to compare them later on (wheelsize, gear ratios etc)

 

[Kelly Wood]

it's not photoshopped, it is the panaromic mode on my device that stitches the scene together, i was too close i guess, see explanation a bit further up.

Gotcha. I was gonna say (like someone else pointed out) bent axle... and a THREE RAIL kart? NICE.

 

[luke_skywalker]

Sooo...
10 20 11 47 it is.. yes 8.54:1 it is.

hitting 41 km/h is -well-... let's say not if your governor is intact
limited to 3600 rpm on 15" tyres ... that's what they look like at least... would be 30km/h
with 4900 rpm though 40 km/h are possible...
42 if you can get it to run 5k rpm
(possible by removing the governor and adding some breath-ease parts)

Is it safe to assume, that you are indeed running 15" wheels and your governor is indeed removed?

tires are 18 x 8.5 - 8.. dont laugh.. i didn't install.. ha

i cant say the speedometer i was using was accurate, it was just a free speedometer app i found in blackberry world that uses the devices gyroscope

i will try the kartcalc.net thingy, thank you for that

 

[itsid]

blackberry... oh!

I'm unsure kartcalc.net will do you any service

Anywhoo 18" wheels 36km/h mathematically,
but I get a clutch heat warning from the calculator which doesn't exactly match your description of "wicked take off"
Nevermind, that's a miracle for a different day to solve

the kartcalcs speedometer isn't different at all... it's also just tapping into your gps and gyro to measure speed and acceleration (with all the drawbacks of that)
it's free (also of ads) and it can save the data for us to see.. that's basically it for this topic

'sid

 

[crazykart]

Kartcalcs, that android? Not trying to threadjack, but Im gonna see if I can get it.

Wow thats some big tires for that little kart lol. I thought they were 15's as well.

 

[luke_skywalker]

blackberry... oh!

I'm unsure kartcalc.net will do you any service

Anywhoo 18" wheels 36km/h mathematically,
but I get a clutch heat warning from the calculator which doesn't exactly match your description of "wicked take off"
Nevermind, that's a miracle for a different day to solve

the kartcalcs speedometer isn't different at all... it's also just tapping into your gps and gyro to measure speed and acceleration (with all the drawbacks of that)
it's free (also of ads) and it can save the data for us to see.. that's basically it for this topic

'sid

ya, i didn't pick the blackberry, it was given to me for work purposes.. i use it mostly to check the weather and read when i am commuting to work. and to text the babes. i'll punk my daughters ipad tonight when she goes to bed and see what i can do

my clutch doesn't seem to be over heating or there is no performance sign, i can go top speed for a while without any change of speed or burning smell or any out of the ordinary heat emanating from the clutch.. so maybe this thing is a marvel of the universe,

either way, i'll keep working on it and see what happens, gonna start dismantling this thing tonight or tomorrow.. ill youtube the progress and share links.

crazykart: doesn't look like you can get kartcalcs for android, but do a google search for karting tool android and you get a few of them, not sure how good they are though, maybe someone else has insight on this. ya, they are big wheels, but i am gonna re use them after to make a trailer for my go kart.

happy thursday to all.

 

[luke_skywalker]

would this be a good deal?

Vega Blue rain set with rims. 11x6.00-5 rear, 10x4.2-5 front one race on them, lots of tire left.$300

add is here and you can see the pictures.. http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/o...ts/1078901836?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true