Predator Performance question

[Flyinhillbilly]

I read a lot in racing kart forums an have yet to see one post about how to keep the governer gear together, or even a mention of them blowing up at that rpm. Does that mean anything? Decide for yourself, I have no hands on experience with trying this so I have no meaningful opinion on it, I just haven't seen it talked about yet.

 

[outcrydrummer]

I would say the chance of tossing the gear is the same or less than throwing a rod with the governor removed.
Im sure its happened to a few people but largely its not an issue. Any predator runs the risk of coming apart or even failing stock.
Its apparently reliable enough to be a class rule for tons of tracks with enough people running it to justify keeping it around.

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

A few people have ran engines with the governor adjusted and it blew apart inside effectively rendering the engine a large paperweight.

Valid point.
Just want to add some perspective.
A few people have had that happen. A few people have had stock predators blow up.
A few people have exploded flywheels at 5200 rpm
A few prople have thrown rods at low rpm on mild engines.

A few people out pf the collective internet doesnt imply a standard as hundreds are modding with stock internals with no issues.
Not being a jerk just trying to be realistic here.

 

[Kartorbust]

I would say the chance of tossing the gear is the same or less than throwing a rod with the governor removed.
Im sure its happened to a few people but largely its not an issue. Any predator runs the risk of coming apart or even failing stock.
Its apparently reliable enough to be a class rule for tons of tracks with enough people running it to justify keeping it around.

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------



Valid point.
Just want to add some perspective.
A few people have had that happen. A few people have had stock predators blow up.
A few people have exploded flywheels at 5200 rpm
A few prople have thrown rods at low rpm on mild engines.

A few people out pf the collective internet doesnt imply a standard as hundreds are modding with stock internals with no issues.
Not being a jerk just trying to be realistic here.

I've thrown a rod in a stock engine. I'm just one that wouldn't risk something especially if I'm dumping several hundred dollars into an engine.

 

[outcrydrummer]

If you mod the predator at all you increase the risk of failure. You could do billet rod and flywheel and all nr racing parts and still end up cracking the block etc.
The increased risk isnt much at all from a statistical standpoint is all im saying.

 

[Poboy kartman]

Governor adjusted or governor disabled?

Both. What I find EXTREMELY hard to believe is (since valve float occurs at 5200), that 5000 is bulletproof.

Speaking of which: how many times can you play Russian roulette without a problem?

It's not what you get away with, it's what you don't!

 

[outcrydrummer]

Well poboy apparently you need to get on the horn and call all these tracks and kart racers and let them know the dangers of running that class.
No one on this entire thread has said that 5k, 5500rpm, etc is bulletproof. As mentioned earlier stock motors fail at stock rated rpm's. Ungoverned motors fail with billet parts in them. It's not Russian roulette as that implies the odds are roughly 1 in 6 you will blow your head off (or motor for this analogy)......
Fact is out of hundreds of karts running that class and all over the internet on racing forums I have never heard of a stock predator adjusted to 5k rpm failing.

The takeaway here, I think, is that anytime you modify the predator you stand a greater chance of failure. The amount of increased risk obviously fluctuates based on what mods you have done and your riding style, type of oil used, oil change intervals, etc.
Based on what I have experienced personally the risk increase of running it at 5k rpm with the governor in tact is negligible.

To sum it up Poboy Kartman I think you need to spend some time researching and looking around at the amount of people running that class and then see how many failures people have had. I've looked at that info as well as running those setups for several years.
Until you do some research your claims don't carry much weight my friend.

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

I wonder if the oil quality is the difference?i've seen blown up governer gears on here on more than one occasion. Maybe the governer gear galls on the shaft causing it to break? I know there is a very specific type and brand of oil Mr. Dover told me to put in my flathead.

 

[Poboy kartman]

I wonder if the oil quality is the difference?i've seen blown up governer gears on here on more than one occasion. Maybe the governer gear galls on the shaft causing it to break? I know there is a very specific type and brand of oil Mr. Dover told me to put in my flathead.

It MUST be the oil! Couldn't possibly be the fact that not everyone here is running lightweight karts with little tires on basically flat ground?

IDK WHY the govenor gear fails and I don't care! I do know they have at an extremely high percentage here!

Perhaps it works in that racing kart class ( for whatever reason) perhaps not! ( I have to question the validity of the information when the claim is made: I have seen a flywheel fail at 5200 rpm, a BILLET rod fail in a governed engine, but NEVER a govenor gear?)

Why would anyone put a billet rod in a governed engine...( unless it was "adjusted" ) and then why does that make this good advice? How many engines have billet rods AND govenors? WHY ???

So....any members willing to "adjust" their govenors....go for it!
"It'll be fine...."

 

[outcrydrummer]

If i said billet rod in a governed engine it was a typo. That doesnt make any sense at all.
If your not going to back any of your claims with real world experience or anythingntangible then there is no reason to argue with you.

It obviously isnt an issue in kart racing.....where the engines are run much harder than a yard kart....sustained high rpm for miles......
Im done.

To the op. Research, plan, and mod purposefully under the direction of your own conclusions and you will be fine.

 

[TheYamahaKID]

Poboy just got steam rolled......

 

[Poboy kartman]

Poboy just got steam rolled......

Uh huh....just wait...:toetap05:

I'm sure I've been wrong a time or two with over 12,000 posts, but just wait until the folks that have found out the hard way start chiming in.

I think I've learned a thing or two since I've been here. But it's nice to know a guy with 7 posts who didn't even bother to fill out a profile location wants to talk smack.

 

[TheYamahaKID]

All I was saying is that you were wrong on a single topic. I didn't question how much experience you have or say that I have more experience than you, all that I was saying is that you were wrong.

And yet you still haven't admitted it. I could care less if I had you approval or not.

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

But I appreciate you trying to help in the question

 

[chancer]

I had this conversation with Outcry last week.
It got me thinking, (Well BBQJOE too.)
We have both broken Gov gears in the engine.
Poboy's advice although (Course as usual) is the standard advice given this forum.
But I always want to keep an open mind, so I can learn.
To me the interesting Question is:
Governor adjustedor disabled/disconnected?

Because I have not disassembled and then reassembled a Governor set up I do not Fully understand how they exactly work or move. (Yes I know what they do and why) It is the how, as in what parts move where internally.

That being said I wonder if disconnecting all the exterior linkages and stuff and throwing them out, Allows the plastic gear to move inside the engine to a place where it breaks.
and therefore...
"Adjusting" the governor to say 5000RPM allows the plastic gear to stay in a safe place.

So maybe it is not that the plastic gear "explodes" due to high RPMS but actually falls out of place when someone takes off all the external parts only.

What do yous guys think?

 

[outcrydrummer]

Again......
You dont like to listen apparently.....
Im not saying it hasnt happen. Im saying 2-5 people across the internet do not make a standard. I race karts in this configration and so do a heck of a lot of people.....never had it halpen to me or anyone else i know. Never heard of it happening to another racer either.
If a few people have had it happen ans hundreds more have not thats nearly the same likelyhood of your stock engine failing.....or a ungoverned billet setup failing.

Lets stop bickering and agree to disagree. I value your input poboy i jist dont care for the attitude and out of centext quotes you base your arguments off of.

Poboy i will no longer reapond to you.
Yamahakid do your research and make your own conclusions and welcome to the fun fun world of predator modifications.

---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------

I had this conversation with Outcry last week.
It got me thinking, (Well BBQJOE too.)
We have both broken Gov gears in the engine.
Poboy's advice although (Course as usual) is the standard advice given this forum.
But I always want to keep an open mind, so I can learn.
To me the interesting Question is:
Governor adjustedor disabled/disconnected?

Because I have not disassembled and then reassembled a Governor set up I do not Fully understand how they exactly work or move. (Yes I know what they do and why) It is the how, as in what parts move where internally.

That being said I wonder if disconnecting all the exterior linkages and stuff and throwing them out, Allows the plastic gear to move inside the engine to a place where it breaks.
and therefore...
"Adjusting" the governor to say 5000RPM allows the plastic gear to stay in a safe place.

So maybe it is not that the plastic gear "explodes" due to high RPMS but actually falls out of place when someone takes off all the external parts only.

What do yous guys think?

I think your 100% on to something.
Did yours fail from holding back the arm or disconnecting the arm?
I would advise against not allowing the governor to act. The mld simpluly delays the rpm n which it does act against the throttle input.
We, kart racers, can not dosconnect any governor parts.

Big question is do those who have failures experience them from not allowing the arm to rest against the plastic cup which acts against the arm.to limit throttle input.
Chancer please explain how yours was setup when failed.

Thanks

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

I had this conversation with Outcry last week.
It got me thinking, (Well BBQJOE too.)
We have both broken Gov gears in the engine.
Poboy's advice although (Course as usual) is the standard advice given this forum.
But I always want to keep an open mind, so I can learn.
To me the interesting Question is:
Governor adjustedor disabled/disconnected?

Because I have not disassembled and then reassembled a Governor set up I do not Fully understand how they exactly work or move. (Yes I know what they do and why) It is the how, as in what parts move where internally.

That being said I wonder if disconnecting all the exterior linkages and stuff and throwing them out, Allows the plastic gear to move inside the engine to a place where it breaks.
and therefore...
"Adjusting" the governor to say 5000RPM allows the plastic gear to stay in a safe place.

So maybe it is not that the plastic gear "explodes" due to high RPMS but actually falls out of place when someone takes off all the external parts only.

What do yous guys think?

Makes sense to me, everyone that's blown one up here has bypassed it completely rather than adjust it. My Honda on nitro still had the gear in it and saw upper 6k rpm's many many times an it was in perfect shape.

 

[chancer]

I wish I remembered. This was the First Kart I ever got about 4 years ago.
When I got it the previous owner had some rinky dink throttle linkage on there.
I am not sure if the Gov, was functioning or not when we got it.
But I re routed the Throttle linkage direct to completely bypass the Gov. linkages.

Then the engine after a year of use, it became REALLY hard to pull. Sometimes I could start it other times not.
We replaced the engine and later when I took apart the old engine (for fun) I found Plastic gear bits.
2 1/2 years later BBQJOE had the same hard to pull issue. He discovered plastic bits on the Cams compression release causing the hard start. I can only assume that was my issue.
regardless we both had broken internal Gov gears.

Now I am not sure exactly how Joe disconnected his... But it was recently, so maybe he will recall and chime in here.

 

[Poboy kartman]

All I was saying is that you were wrong on a single topic. I didn't question how much experience you have or say that I have more experience than you, all that I was saying is that you were wrong.

And yet you still haven't admitted it. I could care less if I had you approval or not.

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

But I appreciate you trying to help in the question

Nobody has proven me wrong yet. Chancer and BbqJoe are both 1 for 1 on this. Chancer advised Joe "it'll be fine for an old man putting around in the desert." The ONE time he gave this advice, and one of the few to do so. So "old man Joe" putted around in the desert and had his govenor gear disintegrate. The only time he tried it, and one of the few bucking conventional wisdom here.

So...wait and see....

I'll admit that he BYPASSED the govenor instead of adjusting it, but IIRC, there have been failures simply adjusting them.

So...I haven't seen any proof to the contrary, to be honest. Just because the rules state a MAXIMUM governed rpm of 5500, doesn't mean anyone is running anywhere close to that or (even adjusted to achieve that) ..are running max rpms at any point.

 

[outcrydrummer]

Poboy go to a kart race. Come to one of mine..... i rsce that class and we all run 4800 to 5k rpm. Everyone racing that class runs that setup at that rpm. Thats where the motor makes peak hp stock.

Anyways i shouldnt even have responded.

Fyi no one has to prove you wrong. Already we know chancer had his disabled based on his post. So if the other gentleman didnt you have 1account of this happening and zero real experiece for yourself.

If you conveinantly ignore that an entire class in kart racing uses that setup succesfully i will never convince you otherwise. And im cool with that.

 

[Kentucky Boy]

I saw a post on here a while back showing a catastrophic failure of the plastic governor gear. The governor had been disabled externally but the gear was left in the motor. The whole motor was ruined, cracked and broken side cover and cam and crank journals broken. Plastic parts suck, especially inside of an engine. If you disable the governor you should remove the plastic gear from inside the case. Racing rules are a different topic I'm not familiar with.

 

[chancer]

Thing is There are some Engines out there with Plastic Cam gears! The 79cc Predator for example, and other 5 and 6 HP models too.
Now the Cam only turns half the RPMs as the crank, but it still says quite a Bit about the plastics.