Predator Modded Now its Dead . . PLEASE HELP

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set2stun

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I am by no means a mechanic and i decided to modify my predator motor. At this point i have replaced the header (muffler right?) with one from ombwarehouse, rejetted and etubed the carb, and put a new air filter on the carb.. The kit i bought came with a pulse fuel pump but i haven't done anything with that yet. Other than changing the header, changing the jet and e-tube and putting on the new air filter i have done nothing else. So here's the problem, i can get the engine to start ONLY if i cup my hand over the carb intake and then release for a second after it starts. But then i have to keep cupping my hand over the carb intake every 2 seconds to keep the motor running. If i take my hand off the carb intake it just dies. Please help me figure out what i did wrong. Do i need to attach the fuel pump? I have tried switching back to the stock e-tube and jets to no avail. BTW . . i'm a girl so please be kind :)
 

Doc Sprocket

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Are you using the stock fuel tank? Are you using the stock choke? Are the governor linkages still correctly attached?

Sounds like you're too lean.

I promise I will be no more or less kind to you, regardless of gender...
 

set2stun

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I am still using the stock fuel tank and stock choke but i may have the linkages incorrect. Could that be the problem? Also, what would be a reason it would run lean? Also, does running lean mean that it is running with too little fuel or too little air?
 

Doc Sprocket

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After reading your list of mods, I cannot imagine why you would need that pump while using the stock, gravity-feed tank. Perhaps you've developed a fuel delivery issue. Is your fuel tap fully turned on? Did you properly re-assemble the fuel inlet valve and float?
 

set2stun

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Yes the fuel valve is turned on to let fuel in. As far as the inlet valve goes i just pushed the tube back on the nipple. When you say "float" are you talking about the carb float? If so i didn't really mess with that at all.
 

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It may have been dislodged or jammed up in the process. Try pulling the fuel line off the carb (pointed into a container) just to make sure fuel is flowing freely. Then, reconnect the line. With a container under the carb, take the bowl off and ensure that when the float hangs freely, fuel flows. Flow should stop when you push the float up with your finger. Keep some rags at hand.
 

Shifter8921

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Sounds to me like maybe the engine is running very lean. Too much air, not enough gas. Thats probably why putting your hand over the intake keeps it running. Just a thought. And what toy story said is also good advice
 

realfast89gt

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In my experience with these engines, the carbs are the weak point. I have had my carb act up 3 or 4 times in just a few months. I have had to remove it and completely clean it and re-install it. Each time it ran great after.

I have had a similiar problem, but mine would start up and only idle, trying to give it gas at all and it would die out.

I would remove the screw on the bottom of the carb and check to see if there is any dirt in the fuel bowl. If there is, you found the problem and just have to clean the carb.
 

realfast89gt

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Other issue i have seen is the carb/intake gaskets not sealing properly. IF it is getting air in from behind the carb at one of the gasket areas it will do this also. You can check by spraying carb/brake cleaner into the carb and watching to see if any drips out from the gasket areas.
 

realfast89gt

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One more thing, you dont need the pump yet. I have all the mods you do plus a cam and mine is fine without a fuel pump. I have heard it isn needed until up in the 12hp+ range.
 

set2stun

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Thanks so much realfast89gt. Everything you say makes sense. So this morning i decided to change the jet yet again to the 37 and thoroughly cleaned out the carb with carb cleaner. This resulted in a noticeable improvement in performance. I still have to cup my hand over the carb intake to get it started but it will run for a little while on its own after that. I decided to go ahead and install the fuel pump to see if that made any difference and it too resulted in increased performance. With the fuel pump installed i could pretty much keep the engine on indefinitely but still have to cup the intake to get it started. Only problem is that when i apply any throttle it either revs high for a few seconds and dies or just flat out dies. I want to take some video as soon as the gardeners leave my little work area. I will post shortly.
 

kendelrk

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I have no idea if this is your problem, but when I got my predator and used the air filter adaptor said to fit most clones, it hit the fuel delivery switch and left a huge hole to suck air into, cupping your hand over the intake may even out your mixture due to the air leak from the filter adaptor.
 

Brandon1023

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One more thing, you dont need the pump yet. I have all the mods you do plus a cam and mine is fine without a fuel pump. I have heard it isn needed until up in the 12hp+ range.

You do know the Edit button allows you to edit your post, so you don't have to quadruple post, right?

Anyway, you've got a Predator? I have the 420 and I love it.
Now then, you said you need to cup your hand over the intake to get it started, right? I had a problem like this on another engine, when I was younger, where I used to have to push the butterfly open with my toe to start it cold. The point is your idle sounds like it may be low. If you look at the carburetor's throttle butterfly (where the linkage connects), and you'll see a black screw with a much larger screw head than the other ones. Turn this in about 1/2 a turn and try it. It shouldn't be out of adjustment, but you never know.

As for having to cup your hand, that sounds like your main jet is restricted -

Scratch everything I said.. More than likely, I know what your problem is. This may only apply to the bigger models, like I have, but it's worth a go. A few months ago, I was repairing someone's generator, which had a stripped jet and required a new carburetor. Little did I know, I ordered a carburetor that fit the engine, but it was designed for an engine with a smaller displacement. The result was a jet which was not designed for that displacement (389cc). The jet was most likely designed for the GX340, which shares many parts with the 390. Once I put the carburetor from my Predator 420 (It's really a 389cc engine) on the generator, it ran fine.

I'm guessing your jet is providing a fuel/air mixture that is not suitable for your displacement. The ideal ratio of gasoline to air, in terms of combustion, is 14.5. I would definitely look in to the modifications you made to the fuel system, since I seriously doubt your carb got gummed up in the past few days. As long as you have a steady stream of gasoline going to the bowl, you should be fine.
 

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I'm assuming you actually removed the carb to swap jets, right?

Double-check that you assembled the gaskets and insulator in the correct order, and the right way 'round. Make sure the gaskets are not damaged, and the carb bolts are tight.

An idle adjustment won't do squat for you. Check the bowl for sediment, to make sure you're not re-clogging the jet.

Remember- having to restrict the air intake indicates a lean situation. This means too much air or not enough fuel. Although they sound the same, they are not. It is possible to be delivering the right amount of fuel, but too much air. Likewise, the engine may be breathing the right amount, but fuel delivery is restricted.

Just to clarify- to start, you must restrict airflow with your hand. Is this is in addition to using the choke?
 

Brandon1023

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Just to clarify- to start, you must restrict airflow with your hand. Is this is in addition to using the choke?

Reminds me of the time I had a GX200 on my little brother's go kart and I didn't know the intake mani had a nice little air leak. I had the thing jacked up and I couldn't understand why the engine ran at full throttle, but not idle speed. Finally, it dawned on me that it needed a stronger vacuum to get the fuel, and the vacuum at idle speed just wasn't cutting it. This sounds like a similar problem, but obviously not the same, so it points towards a leak.
 

jamyers

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Also, be careful when you put the carb on the engine, often the sheet metal cowling tries to keep the carb spacer from seating and sealing to the engine, letting too much air in = lean.
 

set2stun

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Yay I figured out the problem. This whole thing had been driving me crazy. Up until a few hours ago i could not get the motor to start without cupping my hand over the air intake. Then after it started i could not apply any throttle or it would stall out. As i stated before i had tried just about everything to increase compression and keep the motor from running so lean. I reseated the carb multiple times to make sure there were no leaks, cleaned the carb thoroughly with carb cleaner (i know i should use WD40), rejetted the carb to .34, added a new emulsion tube, added a pulse activated fuel pump . . all to no avail. I could not get the thing to start without cupping the air intake and it would only idle if i were so lucky.

So here's what i did to fix the problem [sorry for the long post but i think the more details the better in the event someone else has this problem]. I was thinking last night that when i revved the engine it seemed to flutter out at high rpm's and stall. This might be a symptom of valve floating so i changed the stock springs to 18 lb springs. I also loosened the nuts on the valve lever a little more than recommended because i noticed when i had them too tight i had hardly any compression. With a little more of a gap i was achieving optimal stroke range and getting mad compression. Anyway, changing the springs alone did not fix the problem. I could tell that the engine wanted to run but couldn't for some reason. I finally deduced that it had to be the header. At first i suspected a leaky gasket but leaking was not the problem at all. The header that i purchased came with a silencer that screwed on to the end. Anyway this silencer was so clogged with black gunk that hardly any air was getting through. So i removed the silencer and voila. The think runs crazy strong now.

So now i have one more problem . . FEAR! I didn't remove the governor and have no intention of doing so. I am afraid that even with the limited mods i have made to the motor that its reaching too high rpm's and might shoot a rod in my leg. I have been reading all these warnings about fly wheels exploding and rods shooting out of motors. Is this something i should worry about? I mean i want to put this on a mini bike and i certainly don't want a rod piercing my leg. I'm really kinda scared because the motor is ferociously more powerful than the stock motor on my go kart and i am not sure it is made to accommodate the new power band.

Anyway, here is a short video of the motor running. http://youtu.be/-rNYGZ2wq78
 

jamyers

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I can't tell from the video, but if you've got the throttle hooked up through the governor (stock) you're ok. If you're bypassing the governor and hooking the throttle direct to the carb, you're playing with fire - not soo much from the conn rod or the flywheel but from the governor parts coming apart inside the engine and tearing it apart from the inside.
 
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